Solo Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 ResKit has got 4 different kinds of Mk.82 bombs, including 3 kinds of retarded ones (1/48 scale). I know those bombs have the following fins: BSU-49, BSU-86 and Mk.15. It is nice, but could anyone explain what are the differences between those fins, when those bombs have been used anb by what kind of aircraft? It would be good to know what resin should be used for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted November 26, 2022 Share Posted November 26, 2022 Short answer, the Mk.15 is the classic "snakeeye" fin from the Vietnam era through the 1980s or so. Anything from that era that coud carry/drop a MK82 would likely be able to employ the Mk.15 fin. The BSU-86 is similar to the Mk.15, but has differently shaped petals and was introduced, if I'm not completely out to lunch, in the '80s to replace the Mk.15. BSU-86 fins are gray, Mk.15 were green. Mostly used by USN/USMC aircraft since the 80s - A-6, A-7. AV-8, FA-18, F-14, S-3. The BSU-49 is a Air-Inflatable Retard (AIR, commonly called a ballute fin), I don't know when it was introduced but the primary user is the USAF. I think they chose BSU-49 instead of using the BSU-86 but I'm not 100% certain. I don't recall hearing of any BSU-49 in use by the USN or USMC although the Mk.16 paratail fin used for some mines is externally pretty much the same. I'm sure one of our resident Red Shirts will correct any errors in my info, and add to it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted November 26, 2022 Author Share Posted November 26, 2022 Thanks a lot, that is what I wanted to know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 (edited) To expound on what Joe posted (which is 100% correct); For USN/USMC applications; The Mk 15 fin was in use from the mid 60's to late 2006 (Oct/Nov 06) in the GP and Mine configuration, after that it is only used with the Mk 62 Quickstrike mine. It's easier to list the aircraft that employed GP Bombs and Mk 62 Quickstrike that weren't authorized to use Mk 15 - the F-14 and the F-18E/F. The BSU-86 was introduced in the late 80's and is used on GP Bomb and Mk 62 Quickstrike mine configurations, they are authorized on all platforms* that were/are authorized to employ GP Bombs and Mk 62 Quickstrikes. The BSU-86 is not used by the USAF to my knowledge (and sources). (*NOTE: the BSU-86 configured Mk 62 is not authorized for the F-18E/F). The BSU-49 has not been authorized for use by the USN/USMC, a derivative of the fin (the Mk 16) is used on USN/USMC platforms authorized (except the F-14) to employ the Mk 62 Quickstrike mines since the mid to late 90's. The aircraft listed by Reskit is not accurate, for example, the BSU-86 was introduced well after the A-1 Skyraider was retired (15 (USAF) / 20 (USN/USMC) years afterwards) and at least 10 years after the F-8 was retired from US service (to my knowledge no other country put bombs on their F-8's). The BSU-49 was never used on the A-6 or F-8 and highly doubt they were used on A-4's since foreign countries usually follow what the aircraft original service county authorized the aircraft to carry (on some occasions a foreign country will deviate but it will cost them a huge sum of money to do the flight testing, that's why most countries usually just follow the original countries loading authorization). As for the Mk 15 on an A-1, I highly doubt it since the A-1 couldn't reach the airspeed required to employ the fin in the high drag mod and the aircraft was not cleared for Quickstrike mines. hth GW Edited November 27, 2022 by GW8345 1 Technical correction and grammer corrections Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted November 27, 2022 Author Share Posted November 27, 2022 That is also very useful knowledge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Niels Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 They are somewhat different aswell; the BSU-49 deploys what looks like a parachute behind it, while the others have petals that deploy to reduce drop speed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted November 27, 2022 Author Share Posted November 27, 2022 Ok, regarding all of above, I think I can use Mk.82 thermally protected with BSU.86 fin to put it under the wings of A-7D or F-8J? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Finn Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 21 minutes ago, Solo said: Ok, regarding all of above, I think I can use Mk.82 thermally protected with BSU.86 fin to put it under the wings of A-7D or F-8J? No, the A-7D is the USAF version of the Corsair and the F-8J was retired long before the BSU-86 came into service. To further add to the topic, the F-111Fs used the Mk-82 BSU-49 in Libya in 1986. Also the A-1 could carry the Snakeye: it could carry them on certain stations: http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/A-1H_and_J_Skyraider_SAC_-_1_July_1967.pdf scroll down to page 8 of the file. Jari Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted November 27, 2022 Author Share Posted November 27, 2022 Oh, I meant A-7E, for USN. Beside that, regarding the similar time period, may I use that fins for F-14A? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Finn said: No, the A-7D is the USAF version of the Corsair and the F-8J was retired long before the BSU-86 came into service. To further add to the topic, the F-111Fs used the Mk-82 BSU-49 in Libya in 1986. Also the A-1 could carry the Snakeye: it could carry them on certain stations: http://www.alternatewars.com/SAC/A-1H_and_J_Skyraider_SAC_-_1_July_1967.pdf scroll down to page 8 of the file. Jari I stand corrected 😉 Didn't think the "ol shake n bake" could go that fast to outrun the fragments even with a snakeye. 😄 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted November 27, 2022 Share Posted November 27, 2022 2 hours ago, Solo said: Oh, I meant A-7E, for USN. Beside that, regarding the similar time period, may I use that fins for F-14A? For the A-7E, yes but I would say after late 86/early 87. I was in VA-82 from 84 to 87 and we never used the BSU-86 (or saw any other squadron on the flight line use them either), any time we did retard fins it was always Mk 15's (love the mod 6's, so easy to run the fin arming wire compared to the older mods). For the F-14A, yes, the BSU-86 was the only retard fin we were authorized to use and we did drop them occasionally. Also, one word of caution when it comes to the aircraft SAC's, those are the manufacture's "dream sheet" of the aircraft's performance and what it can carry, the manufacture is actually dreaming if it can do what they put in the SAC. (kind of like the Boeing saying that the Hornet is capable of mach at sea level.............only if it starts at 20,000 feet and in a 45 degree dive will it hit mach at sea level (in full burner of course), and you will to have a tanker standing by 😄 ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GeneK Posted November 30, 2022 Share Posted November 30, 2022 What a great thread - thanks to all the sharing experts! Gene K Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 (edited) I would like to ask about one thing, regarding those bombs - fuzes. ResKit gives us 6 different kinds of fuzes, as you can see it below. Could anyone explain what is the use of those ones? Edited December 1, 2022 by Solo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted December 1, 2022 Share Posted December 1, 2022 5 minutes ago, Solo said: I would like to ask about one thing, regarding those bombs - fuzes. ResKit gives us 6 different kinds of fuzes, as you can see it below. Could anyone explain what is the use of those ones? Actually, there is only one nose fuze in that list. The M904 is a mechanical nose fuse, which hasn't been used actively for a number of years as far as I know, although we were still conducting store compatibility tests of them on Mk-80 series bombs off FA-18 airplanes through at least the early 2000s. I'm not sure if they were still in active use at that time or not though. The Mk-43 TDD is a proximity sensor to allow the bomb to detonate at a set height, but was replaced by the DSU-33. I don't know offhand when that took place; Gerry should be able to fill in details. The ogive and MXU-735 nose plugs are just that - steel plugs that are put in the nose fuze well of a Mk-80 series bomb to increase penetration. The ogive is common on USAF bombs, while the MXU-735 is normally used on USN/USMC bombs. The Mk32 is the sensor used when the mk-80 series bombs are configured as mines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted December 1, 2022 Author Share Posted December 1, 2022 Ok, thanks, that is what I wanted to know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guard Hog Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 (edited) Unfortunately, the BSU-49's are pretty much now out of use with the USAF, but one of the most common fuzing options employed (at least on the A-10 side) was the 904 in the front and an FMU-139 in the back. That configuration was/is known as a Mk 82 Air Pilot Option(1) -- the pilot can select from the cockpit whether he wants the BSU-49 to function (hi-drag delivery) or not (low drag bomb). The USAF uses the 904/905 combo quite a bit still, at least in training. My guess is it's because there are tons in the inventory and they're quite reliable. Edited December 2, 2022 by Guard Hog Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 (edited) For the USN/USMC side; - The M904 went out of use in March 2011. Used on GP Bombs from the late 50's (M904E1) to the 2011 (M904E4), the USAF didn't use the M904E4 to my knowledge (didn't need to use a fuze with thermal coating). Aboard ship all M904's had to be the E4, ashore we mostly used the non-thermally protected E2 or E3. Clarification: The M904E4 was introduced in the 72/73 time frame, prior to that all M904's used aboard ships were non-thermally protected and would be dull silver in color. After 72/73 time frame, all M904's used aboard ship would be E4 variants and thus have the thermal protection coating applied (in addition, after 72/73 all bombs used aboard ships must have thermal protection and firebombs were no longer authorized for use onboard ships). - The Mk 43 went out of use in Jan 2005. (never authorized on F-18E/F), replaced by the DSU-33. - The Ogive was common in USN/USMC GP Bombs from the late 60's to the late 80's, it was supplemented by the MXU-735. I have not seen an Ogive used in a GP or JDAM in the over 25 years but they are still authorized. Only used on aircraft stations that were capable of employing electric fuzed bombs. - If that chart posted by Solo is a color chart don't follow it, they are way off! The M904 thermal coating would be tan (30219), the dial (nose) would be gunship gray with a sliver propeller, the MXU-735 will be either olive drab (early variant) or light ghost grey (later variant), the Mk 32 will be silver, the Ogive will be rust color or a rust/darkish green color, the Mk 43 is beret green (testors 1/4 oz bottle 1171 is a perfect match) and the DSU-33 will be either black or tanish/light gray depending on the variant/time frame (early one's were black, later one's were tanish/light gray). Edited December 2, 2022 by GW8345 Update and clarify M904 info Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted December 2, 2022 Author Share Posted December 2, 2022 Thanks a lot. Perfect information. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff M Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 Lots of good information here on a subject most don't know about (Me). Geoff M Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted December 2, 2022 Author Share Posted December 2, 2022 (edited) For the sake of clarity and certainty: all of the above fuses used now and in the past are also fuses not only for dumb bombs, but also for JDAM weapons? Edited December 2, 2022 by Solo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joe Hegedus Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 JDAM would only use the nose plugs or DSU-33. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GW8345 Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 The only nose devices authorized for JDAM's (with Mk 80 Series Warheads) are; DSU-33, MXU-735 and Ogive. Note: the Ogives used by the USN/USMC are different from the one's used by the USAF, the USAF ogives are shorter and has two slots cut into them, they are not authorized for USN/USMC use. The M904 and Mk 43 were only authorized for GP Bombs (dumb bombs), the Mk 32 is only authorized with Destructor (Mk 36/40/41) and Quickstrike (Mk 62/63) Mines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted December 2, 2022 Share Posted December 2, 2022 33 minutes ago, Solo said: ... for stupid bombs... Hey now, we can't say that any more - it's now "guidance challenged"..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted December 2, 2022 Author Share Posted December 2, 2022 40 minutes ago, habu2 said: Hey now, we can't say that any more - it's now "guidance challenged"..... Sorry, it should be "dumb" of course. 🙂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Solo Posted December 2, 2022 Author Share Posted December 2, 2022 1 hour ago, GW8345 said: The only nose devices authorized for JDAM's (with Mk 80 Series Warheads) are; DSU-33, MXU-735 and Ogive. Note: the Ogives used by the USN/USMC are different from the one's used by the USAF, the USAF ogives are shorter and has two slots cut into them, they are not authorized for USN/USMC use. The M904 and Mk 43 were only authorized for GP Bombs (dumb bombs), the Mk 32 is only authorized with Destructor (Mk 36/40/41) and Quickstrike (Mk 62/63) Mines. Thank you, you are just invaluable guide to modern weapons. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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