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“No harness straps”


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I see that phrase in practically every kit review I read. Well, a lot of them anyway.

 

Why no harness straps? What’s the problem with harness straps? Why do kit makers routinely omit them while reviewers routinely complain about that omission? Is it a real problem? Does anyone really care?

 

Serious questions. It would be nice to see responses from manufacturers.

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I think the problem is, that even if they included them, people would still complain.  If they do them in photoetch, many people would complain about that. It's probably easier for them just to leave them off and not have to worry about another "medium" to have to include with their kits, especially with so many different aftermarket options available.  I also believe, like myself, there are a good number of modelers who like to use figures.  

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1 hour ago, eraucubsfan said:

I think the problem is, that even if they included them, people would still complain.  If they do them in photoetch, many people would complain about that. It's probably easier for them just to leave them off and not have to worry about another "medium" to have to include with their kits, especially with so many different aftermarket options available.  I also believe, like myself, there are a good number of modelers who like to use figures.  

With a PE fret you would at least have something to work with. Based on my experience with atrocious fit of aftermarket I am less and less inclined to waste money on it. If it comes included in the kit, it "should" fit.  A lot of the time there are not a ton of options from aftermarket depending on the kit. A lot of the time there is no aftermarket specifically for a kit on release and a window opens sometimes six months to a year or two later where aftermarket is readily available and then it dries up.

 

Personally I don't like the pilot figures included in most kits. And with modern jets, does the pilot's gear even represent the timeframe you're making? The details are too soft and I've just gotten out of the habit of using them altogether. I don't like it when a maker includes a pilot instead of seat belts, but can understand the reasoning. I find it lazy on the maker to skip both seat belts or a pilot. 

 

I am also getting more and more annoyed with this trend to skip details and make the modeler buy aftermarket if he wants it. 40 years ago Monogram was creating kits that gave you everything for a passable cockpit out of the box that still hold up fairly well today. I think it was their F-18 kits that they included a paper pattern for a harness in the instructions that worked out pretty well for the time.

 

By the time I build most kits it's years after release and is aftermarket even available anymore? I went looking for Tamiya's detail up parts for the F-16 yesterday and can't find that anywhere, so I have to piece together those parts from different vendors.

 

Once you get aftermarket does it fit? I'd swear several of these companies are a total waste of money and I wouldn't mind seeing them fold.

 

If I have to go aftermarket for seat belts I would rather just use a one piece complete resin seat than fiddle with a PE harness, but I'm running 50/50 on resin cast seats actually fitting the kit cockpit of the intended kit. I bought a 1/48 Draken seat that was way too wide to get into the cockpit. This was more than a little shaving like I had to do with A-4 and F-8 seats, this was grind off the sides into the seat cushions to get it narrow enough, so I don't know what kit it was designed for.  Why the huge size error when there is only one target kit on the market? It's crap like this that turns me off aftermarket.

 

 

 

 

 

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Certainly, in this day and age of 3D printing, etc., modellers shouldn't be making harnesses out of masking tape, etc. Whether moulded crudely in plastic, or provided in PE/resin, or a combination of those, or fabric - it is all good in my eyes, as long as the manufacturers make an effort.

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A lot of things have to be left out of models for various reasons: they'd be too small to show up, they'd cost more to mould, they'd put off pocket-money buyers.  Things like brake lines, accurate guns (not the ones that look like broom handles), wire aerials - more often than not you've to sort out your own.  But as far as I'm concerned, seat belts should be standard, especially in a cockpit that's (i) easily big enough to fit them - anything in 1/48 or bigger, and (ii) full of other detail.  Missing them out spoils the effect.  And I don't buy the idea that you can do without if you include a pilot, because his seat belts are never properly attached, on the seat pan or over the shoulders or anywhere else.

 

Yet this seems to be something where many manufacturers just will not improve what they offer.  And it's not alone.  For instance, why do we keep reading "this is a short-run kit so it has no location pins" as though it was a law of nature?  So: I'm only making five hundred of these so I can't cut pins and sockets into the moulds - I'd need to sell five thousand if you wanted me to do that.  It just makes no sense.

 

Actually, half the time it would be nice if they'd mould the socket within an inch of the pin.  Maybe not having any isn't so bad after all.

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23 minutes ago, pigsty said:

if you include a pilot, because his seat belts are never properly attached, on the seat pan or over the shoulders or anywhere else.

 

Yep. I'm one of those modelers who dislikes the 'Nobody Home' look and went through phases of not bothering with seat belt and harness connections to the seats, then bothering, then not bothering again, when building 1/48 military props and jets in 1980s and 1990s.

Usually used painted notebook paper for the connecting straps.

 

Currently building things other than military aircraft.

And am presently building in 1/72 scale, and in 1/144 scale where those belts would be of cat hair dimension.

Decided to not even try to paint something where the belts would be on the four 1/144 scale 3D printed Shuttle astronauts being painted for a sci-fi build.

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I can't think of a single kit where the harnesses moulded on the seats look credible, so it would be best left off.  Photoetched seatbelts can be very fiddly, but they need to be "curled up" and straightened a bit to look like the fabric material laying naturally - the inks on the prepainted stuff will then chip and need repair.  Paper/fabric will need buckles, so an optivisor and two pairs of tweezers and maybe a stiff drink to calm the nerves.  Aires tend to pursue the photoetched belt and buckles, so the same will apply, but at least you won't have to repaint pre-painted belts. The most realistic I find are resin seats - Quickboost appear to be Aires seats with the belts and buckles as part of the casting, but it is not realistic for kit manufacturers to include resin seats with every kit.  A pilot figure will hide the lack of seat belts, and if the seat is without belts, then they can be added by every modellers' favourite method and material without having to risk damage to the kit parts by first removing unrealistic seat belts.

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Usually harness detail does not look good when made from injection modded plastic.  Even with slide molding you cannot mold a realistic lay to the belts as they are three dimensoinal on top of the seat.  Most would agree that Tamiya is among the best but even when you look at them trying to make molded belts in their 1/20 F-1 cars it did not work.  That is a bigger scale where it should be easier but I don:t think you can find hardly any example of where it is done well.  Now I have seen very nice molded belts in resin whether 3-d or cast.  I actually prefer this to photo etch if well done but it requires delicate paint work.  Photo etch is too rigid.  HGW did fabric looking belts with metal hardware that is one of the more realistic alternatives but I prefer paint in 1/32 or smaller.    

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