‘Devil 505’ Loadout

[fistius]

Hi all, 

 

ignorant question, I am looking at doing an A-6 in 1/48 scale, replicating Devil 505 on the way to bomb ‘Sam City’ from the movie Flight of the Intruder. In the movie, Cole states they will have 10 thousand pounders, which I assumed would be Mk 83s. When they finally release in the movie, the bombs shown have the Snakeye style opening tail fins. So I guess the question is, what would be the correct weapons to use? Did Mk-83s have a Snakeye tail, or is this a continuity error and they were Mk-82s?

 

Cheers, Chris

[usmcski6502]

Continuity error. The Mk 83 “retarded fin” is an AIR - Air Inflatable Retarder. If memory serves, when the bombs are released in the film, Mk15 Snakeye fins were used. 
 

Semper,

Ski

[Quixote74]

6 hours ago, usmcski6502 said:

Continuity error. The Mk 83 “retarded fin” is an AIR - Air Inflatable Retarder. If memory serves, when the bombs are released in the film, Mk15 Snakeye fins were used. 
 

Semper,

Ski

 

Is this correct? I understood all the Mk 80 series (or at minimum both the 500 lb Mk 82 and Mk 83 1000 pounder) used "Snakeye" tail groups as an option to the "slick" conical fins.  The AIR "ballute" was introduced post-Vietnam, but my understanding was that fin group was again an optional fit (and only used operationally by USAF, not USN/USMC), so Snakeyes would be correct for the film.

 

Related recent discussion on the various fin & fuse types here:

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?/topic/329547-mk82-retarded-bombs-different-fins/

[GW8345]

What you are looking for is Mk 83's with MAU-91 Snakeye fins, the problem is no one makes a Mk 83 with a MAU-91 (for scale modeling).

 

The USN/USMC did not use the AIR "ballute" fin (BSU-85) until the mid to late 80's so they wouldn't be time period appropriate for what you want to do.

 

The Mk 15 Snakeye was only for the Mk 82 500 lb bomb, the MAU-91 has a very different shape but does open like a Mk 15 (four petals).

 

If you really want to give it a try, you can take the MAU-91 from a M117 and graft it only a Mk 83 bomb body, the MAU-91 was used for both the Mk 83 and M117 so it should fit a Mk 83 bomb body, that would give you the correct bomb configuration.

 

https://www.aviationmegastore.com/en/modelling/us-750lb--m117-gp-bomb-with-mau-91-high-drag-tail-2x-astra-models-asr4814-132542.html

Edited December 17, 2022 by GW8345

[fistius]

On 12/16/2022 at 2:46 AM, GW8345 said:

What you are looking for is Mk 83's with MAU-91 Snakeye fins, the problem is no one makes a Mk 83 with a MAU-91 (for scale modeling).

 

The USN/USMC did not use the AIR "ballute" fin (BSU-85) until the mid to late 80's so they would be time period appropriate for what you want to do.

 

The Mk 15 Snakeye was only for the Mk 82 500 lb bomb, the MAU-91 has a very different shape but does open like a Mk 15 (four petals).

 

If you really want to give it a try, you can take the MAU-91 from a M117 and graft it only a Mk 83 bomb body, the MAU-91 was used for both the Mk 83 and M117 so is should fit a Mk 83 bomb body, that would give you the correct bomb configuration.

 

https://www.aviationmegastore.com/en/modelling/us-750lb--m117-gp-bomb-with-mau-91-high-drag-tail-2x-astra-models-asr4814-132542.html

Awesome, thank you. I’m going to foolishly assume that these are the same thing;

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/eduard-648190-m-117-bomb-w-airbrake--946554
 

cheers, Chris

[GW8345]

2 hours ago, fistius said:

Awesome, thank you. I’m going to foolishly assume that these are the same thing;

https://www.scalemates.com/kits/eduard-648190-m-117-bomb-w-airbrake--946554
 

cheers, Chris

Yes 🙂

 

For 10 x Mk 83/MAU-91 on an A-6, they would be loaded as follows;

 

Outboard stations - MER with one Mk 83 on the aft centerline station and one on each forward shoulder stations (three bombs total for the MER)

Inboard stations - MER with one Mk 83 on the aft centerline station and one on the outboard forward shoulder station (two bombs total for the MER)

Centerline - drop tank

 

For the MER's you want the middle (in the pic) configuration, that is the Vietnam (to 80's) configuration.

 

https://www.eduard.com/eduard/brassin/aircraft/1-48/mer-1-48.html

 

Here's a pic of Mk 83's being loaded on a MER on an A-6, you can see that the aft centerline station is already loaded and the ordies are loading the inboard forward shoulder station (the yellow bar on the outboard shoulder station is the hoist adapter);

 

https://servimg.com/view/18828507/1412

 

hth

GW

 

Edited December 17, 2022 by GW8345

[fistius]

Outstanding, thank you so much!

 

Cheers, Chris

[usmcski6502]

2 hours ago, GW8345 said:

Yes 🙂

 

For 10 x Mk 83/MAU-91 on an A-6, they would be loaded as follows;

 

Outboard stations - MER with one Mk 83 on the aft centerline station and one on each forward shoulder stations (three bombs total for the MER)

Inboard stations - MER with one Mk 83 on the aft centerline station and one on the outboard forward shoulder station (two bombs total for the MER)

Centerline - drop tank

 

For the MER's you want the middle (in the pic) configuration, that is the Vietnam (to 80's) configuration.

 

https://www.eduard.com/eduard/brassin/aircraft/1-48/mer-1-48.html

 

Here's a pic of Mk 83's being loaded on a MER on an A-6, you can see that the aft centerline station is already loaded and the ordies are loading the inboard forward shoulder station (the yellow bar on the outboard shoulder station is the hoist adapter);

 

https://servimg.com/view/18828507/1412

 

hth

GW

 

As expected, GW to the rescue! Your ordnance knowledge predates mine (‘92-14), thanks as always for your contribution!

 

IYAOYAS,

 

Ski

[GW8345]

16 hours ago, fistius said:

Outstanding, thank you so much!

 

Cheers, Chris

 

16 hours ago, usmcski6502 said:

As expected, GW to the rescue! Your ordnance knowledge predates mine (‘92-14), thanks as always for your contribution!

 

IYAOYAS,

 

Ski

Always a pleasure to be of assistance. 🙂

 

IYAOYAS

GW

[DarkKnight]

wow thats a heavy load, is that a common configuration of the time?  I thoroughly enjoyed the book, the movie not so much.

[Finn]

Heavier loads were dropped as well by the A-6A:

 

It was dark and difficult to see on the night of April 18, 1966, but the U.S. Navy was counting on that. The aircraft carrier USS Kitty Hawkprepared three aircraft for launch from its powerful catapults. A Soviet intelligence-gathering ship was nearby, so the planes operated under radio silence. A pair of A-6 Intruder attack planes quickly rose from the carrier’s deck accompanied by an E-2A Electronic Warfare aircraft for later communications. Commander Ron Hays, executive officer of Squadron VA-85, piloted the lead plane with his bombardier-navigator Lieutenant Ted Been seated next to him. Lt. Cmdr. Bill Yarbrough and bombardier-navigator Lieutenant Bud Roemish flew the other A-6 as their wingmen.

 

Their target was the Uong Bi powerplant, 12 miles north of Haiphong, a port city in Communist-controlled North Vietnam. The Intruder’s crews rendezvoused soon after takeoff and leveled off below 500 feet, staying low to avoid enemy radar detection. They stayed that way until about 25 miles from the target and then began a slow climb to 1,800 feet, where they could safely release their bomb loads. Each A-6 carried 13 Mk. 83 1,000-pound bombs. Soon the powerplant, sitting on the northeast side of Uong Bi, appeared below. The pilots separated their aircraft laterally before Hays made his run, releasing all his bombs onto the target. The second plane had problems with its release mechanism but the bombardier-navigator was able to manually drop his entire load as well.

 

The North Vietnamese were taken by surprise that night. By the time they began firing their antiaircraft guns both Intruders were already on the way home. A later damage assessment counted at least 25 bomb craters in the target area with heavy damage to the plant. The next day the North Vietnamese released a press statement in which they attributed the destruction to the B-52 Stratofortress. This was because the North Vietnamese were not yet fully aware of the payload and night attack capabilities of the newly introduced A-6 Intruder, but in the coming years they would learn this lesson, much to their detriment.

 

I read somewhere that they were Mk-83 Snakeyes used on that mission. Here is one with 15 Mk-83s:

 

http://aoadecals.com/images/225-1.jpg

 

Jari

[GW8345]

If they were releasing at 1800 feet, they were using retard fins.

 

If they used conical fins they would have either dud'ed the bombs or been frag'ed by them.