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National Naval Aviation Museum NAVAIR museum in Pensacola, FL not open to civilians. Vacation FAIL


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myself; I'd be lighting a match to my Congressman and Senator's rear end with a very pointed (hand written) letter explaining that this is a complete miss use of your tax payer's dollars. Years back (long enough to still be married) my then wife and I were passing near Ft. Campbell KY. Decided to show her the base I did basic training in. We show up at the main gate and I tell the young MP (everybody is younger than me) that we would like to visit the 101st Museum. He said a blunt no!  I asked why, and he had now answer, but made a phone call. Five minutes later another MP shows up and escorted us to the place while being extremely friendly. The kid asked why I was so interested in the place and I told him I was there in 1967. He not only took the two of us in there, but had them to give us the guided tour. Going back out the gate the same kid stopped me again, and simply asked who I was. I told him I was just like him, but was there in 67. My wife was very impressed by the treatment we got, and told he they need to grow up

gary

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It is an unfortunate circumstance that the museum is located on a military base and has to deal with the security issues associated with that.  I am sure the museum itself doesn't want the public at large restricted from coming in but is handcuffed by its location.  Many of the museums associated with the military are located on military bases.  How they deal with the security issues would be interesting to hear.  Some have been lucky enough to receive the land they are on from the associated base, for example the Air Force Museum (it is located on what was part of Area B of Wright-Patterson AFB).  Some are left over when the base closes, for example Castle Air Museum (Castle AFB closed in 1994/95 timeframe).  I don't know the particulars of where on the base the Museum is located; near the flight line I believe so probably not something the Navy can donate to the museum.  If and when the Naval Aviation Museum is able to relocate it will take an act of congress to provide the money to procure the land needed and to build the proper facilities.  There is usually a fundraising campaign that the federal government matches to achieve these goals in these situations.  I remember the AF Museum doing a fundraising decades ago to build new hangers that the Fed matched.  Whether you believe that is a good use of taxpayer money or not is moot because there are so many pork barrel projects that the congress subsidizes this would be a drop in the bucket.  All that to say the complaining and moaning going on in this thread is not going to change the fact that it is not open to the public.  Maybe someday.  

Edited by Geoff M
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The Air Mobility Command Museum at Dover has a separate entrance and parking lot. It is located on the edge of the base, so there is no need to enter the base to visit the museum.  I wonder if this would be possible at the Navair museum ? I hope they figure out something, it is a Museum I have always wanted to visit. 

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12 minutes ago, Kurt H. said:

The Air Mobility Command Museum at Dover has a separate entrance and parking lot. It is located on the edge of the base, so there is no need to enter the base to visit the museum.  I wonder if this would be possible at the Navair museum ? I hope they figure out something, it is a Museum I have always wanted to visit. 

The NMNA is located pretty much in the middle of NAS Pensacola; it occupies the plot of land at the southeast corner of Sherman Field (P-Cola's airfield).  From looking at a map of the area, there doesn't really seem to be much option for a dedicated entrance exclusively for the museum, as it is located between the access for the airfield facilities (transient line, tenant squadrons, etc., and the rest of the base (admin areas, Naval Aviation schools, etc.).

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4 hours ago, Kurt H. said:

The Air Mobility Command Museum at Dover has a separate entrance and parking lot. It is located on the edge of the base, so there is no need to enter the base to visit the museum.  I wonder if this would be possible at the Navair museum ? I hope they figure out something, it is a Museum I have always wanted to visit. 

In similar fashion, here in the UK two of our three services' aviation museums are located within the boundaries, but at the edges, of their associated airfields - both have easy access from public roads running alongside them:

Yeovilton.jpg.ec0557e00f48c3b516f45faa7b9b02c4.jpg

At RNAS Yeovilton, some of the station's facilities are north of the B3151 public road, simply fenced-off with gated access - not an uncommon feature...

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In both instances, the museum areas are separated from the immediately-adjacent active airfields by simple fences, with great views of the active areas.

Pensacola.thumb.jpg.07162a2fe8daeda74c6f40cfd46318d0.jpg

Looking at NAS Pensacola, the most obvious route for public access would be along the S Blue Angels Parkway that loops south from Highway 98 down the western side of the flying area, and then along its southern edge and up to the museum - as the station's controlled access point is just below Blue Angels Lake, it would really only need fencing from there along the northern side of the parkway as far as the museum entrance, in similar fashion to what we do here with 'split' sites that have public roads running through them. Probably an overly-simplistic solution, but then sometimes, that's all that's needed!

Culdrose.jpg.53dfb15a2ed120e3a108ebe80d7a09c2.jpg

Another split site; the A3038 runs around and through RNAS Culdrose - airfield north, main admin area south, fenced-off with gated access both sides.

Tyndall.jpg.0ce4d0a2bf2f217ca153efbf4a11e0dd.jpg

And not a million miles from Pensacola, Highway 98 runs right through Tyndall AFB - so split sites aren't solely a UK phenomenon...

Edited by andyf117
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Look at their website/call before you go and plan accordingly. The Commander of that post is in a tough spot with the local community voicing their concerns because of the economic impact and the Pentagon taking a cautious approach after those sailors were killed a few years back. I imagine the Navy would want a permanent solution that takes time and resources to plan/build but reduces the risk associated with an open installation.

 

 

 

 

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22 hours ago, Jon Krol said:

Raised their right hand to take an oath. Hmmm. So I assume by that statement you consider yourself more of a legitimate citizen than any other natural born citizen in this country. What about naturalized citizens? They take the same oath as our servicemen and women. Protect and defend the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic.

 

I'm 69 years old and come from a Navy family. My dad and two uncles served in WWII in the Navy. They took the oath. All three in the Pacific. My dad died on active duty when I was fifteen in 1969 and my mom got $10k from the government to raise two kids. He didn't get the pay raises and the bennies the enlisted got because of Zumwalt. I had another uncle that served in the Navy Reserves as an officer. He took the oath. My late brother in law retired as a Commander rising through the ranks from enlisted. He took the oath. I've been around the military pretty much all my life although I did not serve. I have a lot of respect for those that have volunteered to serve. I also resent those that think that because they volunteered that they are some how better than those citizens that did not.

 

Aside from the issues with the museum and it's accessibility to the public it seems the USAF has no problems spending quite a bit more money on their rather comparatively obscenely huge and well taken care of museum and allowing access to most of it's exhibits while next to an operational facility. They have a B-36 and B-52 under cover. Th Navy can't even shelter an A3D. It is like the Navy's museum is a bastard step child comparatively. I'm sure there are many vets that do not have the bennies of the retired that would like to see some of the hardware they flew or worked on years past. I think the Navy has an obligation to see that their museum is accessible otherwise what is the reason or purpose for having it. 

 

I started writing a response twice, before this my third response to your diatribe.  I bold faced the parts of your post that I am specifically responding to.

1st: The citizenship support and defend is further defined with the caveat "as required by law" i.e. if they get drafted they will show. 

2nd: 10K is 76K in today dollars, it's designed to let you make it for a year or so.  Your mom also received a lifetime ID card (unless she remarried), medical, commissary and exchange privileges (unless she remarried).  Those privileges would have extended to her children until 18.

3rd: As a veteran (27 years total) I don't care if you have a ton of family members who served, honestly; it sounds like you are trying to be cool by association.

4th: The AF Museum is privately funded, just like the Naval Air Museum, and most other large "official" museums. That "obscenely huge" museum has expanded over the years, expansions driven by aircraft acquisitions, and a desire to preserve them by getting them into a controlled environment.

5th: Agree, their management is remiss by not having thought security and public access through,write your congressman/woman and complain. Encourage others to do the same (change.org is a good place to start).

 

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9 hours ago, Da SWO said:

 

I started writing a response twice, before this my third response to your diatribe.  I bold faced the parts of your post that I am specifically responding to.

1st: The citizenship support and defend is further defined with the caveat "as required by law" i.e. if they get drafted they will show. 

2nd: 10K is 76K in today dollars, it's designed to let you make it for a year or so.  Your mom also received a lifetime ID card (unless she remarried), medical, commissary and exchange privileges (unless she remarried).  Those privileges would have extended to her children until 18.

3rd: As a veteran (27 years total) I don't care if you have a ton of family members who served, honestly; it sounds like you are trying to be cool by association.

4th: The AF Museum is privately funded, just like the Naval Air Museum, and most other large "official" museums. That "obscenely huge" museum has expanded over the years, expansions driven by aircraft acquisitions, and a desire to preserve them by getting them into a controlled environment.

5th: Agree, their management is remiss by not having thought security and public access through,write your congressman/woman and complain. Encourage others to do the same (change.org is a good place to start).

Way more elegant, than deserved. Bravo!

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What kind of surprises me is that they are very specific about whose ID card you can use. I am a .gov employee that is routinely on different military bases as part of the scope and function of my job. Having to have my ID verified from "up above" has never been a concern. I wonder if they would really be as concerned there, as they portray, to get on base, or if the museum would have an issue with it.

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2 hours ago, Spook498 said:

I wonder if they would really be as concerned there, as they portray, to get on base, or if the museum would have an issue with it.

As long as the Expiration Date on your CA card is less than the date you try to get on board NASP, you won't have a problem.  And unless you're the Waltons, it will cover every one in your immediate family.  You are allowed to "escort" up 15 additional people.  Just make sure that all adults in your party have a valid form of ID (Driver's License or State ID) with them.

 

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On 12/29/2022 at 4:48 PM, andyf117 said:

Looking at NAS Pensacola, the most obvious route for public access would be along the S Blue Angel Parkway that loops south from Highway 98 down the western side of the flying area, and then along its southern edge and up to the museum - as the station's controlled access point is just below Blue Angels Lake, it would really only need fencing from there along the northern side of the parkway as far as the museum entrance, in similar fashion to what we do here with 'split' sites that have public roads running through them. Probably an overly-simplistic solution, but then sometimes, that's all that's needed!

While you may be right, the last I heard (almost a year ago now)  was that State Senator Doug Broxon was negotiating with the US Navy and Florida Dept. of Transportation) to construct  a "raised road" down Blue Angel Parkway from Sorrento Blvd. all the way to the Museum as well as expanding Blue Angel Parkway form two to four lanes south of US 98 to Sorrento Blvd.  Understandably this met with some resistance from the US Navy and most of the other state senators and representatives outside of North West Florida.  I haven't  heard anything else on the local news lately other than Dougie's droning on about it during the past election cycle.  And since he got reelected, I doubt there will be much movement on it for a while.

 

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On 12/30/2022 at 10:10 PM, BrockyTaz said:

 You are allowed to "escort" up 15 additional people.  Just make sure that all adults in your party have a valid form of ID (Driver's License or State ID) with them.

 

I had that back when I had a DON CA card as well. My flight line badge was good for up to 3 additional people.

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Hey guys,
 
Just a heads up for anyone who is planning a visit to the North West Florida/Mobile Alabama area this year between March and November.  While you most likely won’t be able to visit the  Naval Aviation Museum in Pensacola you could still catch a Blue Angels practice show from the Pensacola Light House Museum.  The Blues usually fly their practice shows on Tuesday and Wednesday most weeks during their posting to NAS Pensacola. It’s a cool little Museum located just south of the Air Station (just across the street form the Naval Aviation Museum).  It is also a really great way to see the show. Not may venues offer a perspective from 300 ft in the air.
 

You will need to get on their website ( https://www.pensacolalighthouse.org ) shortly after the Blue Angels release their 2023 schedule which usually happens in early March and make reservations.  There is a very limited number of slots per show, I think it’s something like 20 people. If you do get tickets, non-DoD CA card holders will be met with a bus in the parking lot of the CVS Pharmacy store on the corner of Navy Blvd. and Gulf Beach Highway.  You verify your ID with the bus driver and they will drive you onto the base and to the Lighthouse.  Oh and the tickets will be refunded if weather or other unforeseen circumstances (presidential edicts/budget sequestration) cause a cancellation of the show. All of this is explained on the home page of the website.
 

I realize this may not be of much help to most folks, but it is slightly better than no chance at all.
 

Anyway just thought I’d put this out since it is one of the more unknown attractions in our area. 

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  • 1 month later...

Again I'm late to the party, but have tried to catch up on what's going on with ARC when I stumbled on this. I have mixed feelings about this. 

On the one hand, I now feel very lucky to have gotten to visit this museum back in the early 90s. I was actively flying CF-18s, and was sent to Pensacola for a Spatial Disorientation course after we had some of our pilots die due to disorientation in cloud. That course was FAR more fun and interesting than the centrifuge training I had to do in Toronto as part of the training we all got. 1.5 minutes at 9 G was no fun at all.

While I was on base in Pensacola (staying in VOQ there, or whatever the USN calls them), I took an afternoon and slowly browsed through the collection. The aircraft I was most fascinated with were the Valkyrie (my god it's big!) and the YF-17 prototype. I spent a long time crawling all around the Northrop forerunner of the jet I had accumulated over 1,000 hours on at the time.

I am also a little sad that I won't be able to take my wife to see that museum - but then again, she is very happy not to be subjected to that! 🙂

 

Through my 20 years in Canada's military, I saw some understandable restrictions to what we could and couldn't see of American secrets. For example, when the AIM-120 first came out, we were not allowed to see HUD tapes or to understand what valid shot/kill criteria were. We didn't have them, and didn't have a 'need to know.'  Some things made no sense, though, where we had the same weapon (AIM-9M or AIM-7M), and weren't allowed to see tapes of their shots when we flew dissimilar air combat training with them. One time, when I was sure a young F-16 pilot's shot on me wasn't valid, I challenged it in the debrief and was stonewalled at first. Then I turned to his lead, explained why I knew the shot couldn't have been valid (based on capabilities of the missile), and his eyes got big. I told him that we had the same missile, and the same classified publications that described its abilities. He then went to the next room with the wingman, rewatched the tape, and came out saying 'yup - you didn't die in that engagment because (classified).'

There are legitimate security (physical and intel) concerns behind many rules, but some are a bit overdone. Back when my father was a Voodoo navigator in Canada, he was on exchange with the USAF, and was tasked to do some research on something that required access to the USAF operating data for the F-101. He wasn't allowed to see the document (No-Foreign), despite the fact it was identical to the publications that the USA had released to Canada to operate their own fleet of identical aircraft. The Major looked around, and said "Look - I need you to do this job, urgently. I'm going to take a 90-minute lunch, and leave the document on this table. Just make sure it's back here when I get back from lunch." Luckily, nobody got in trouble for that, and NORAD was able to get a valid assessment of tactics from the incident.

 

NAS Pensecola has every right to restrict access, just like any military installation anywhere in the world. I'm just glad that I found out about this before naively planning to swing by and relive my experience there.

ALF

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