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Polish F-16 C/D Viper


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Block 52+ has a larger nose gear (among many other things) that requires a raised bump in the lower face of the inlet duct to provide clearance for the larger nose wheel. I'm not aware of any kit by any manufacturer that includes this feature. 

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10 minutes ago, Janissary said:

 

On behalf of everyone who has responded to your questions: You're welcome. 

 

Post harder my man. 

Thank you and the others

 

When it comes to military modeling, out of 100%

Ship - 5%

Aircraft - 10%

1/35 armor - 85%

 

I have only done a hand full of aircraft so it's still new to me

 

I have some hurricane Harvey survivors (semi-built), mostly MIG's and SU's I'm going to finish / rebuild for my Polish series, the F-16C/D will be part of the series

I'm also looking at the F-35 which Poland as bought

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42 minutes ago, Mig-21 said:

It says Kinetic Gold on the box, so I'm guessing it's one of the new tooling

If so, I can build the C version for CAP, the D version is for ground attack / wild weasel

 

lumps and pump???

The Polish F-16 block 52 has some different antennas and parachute housing 

 

 

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Lumps and bumps. 

 

The E/F, are Blk60, they were given the E/F suffix due to being considerably upgraded which required changes to the actual airframe compared to the Blk 50/52, they are only used by the UAE.

 

Polish Blk52 Advanced aircraft are in fact newer than the Blk60. 

 

There are 3 versions of the Blk52

Blk52

Blk52+
Blk52 Advanced

Edited by scotthldr
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For those who want to know more, www.F-16.net is the place to look for information on the Viper. 

 

The various versions are described here: F-16 Versions 
May not be down to each individual panel line, however it gives you the major changes between the various blocks and models. Otherwise at the same location you have a good selection of photo references to study 

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45 minutes ago, Solo said:

Poland most definitely fly the Blk52 Advanced.

 

The only Blk52+ jets in Europe are those operated by 340, 343 and 337 Mira of the Hellenic Air Force

Edited by scotthldr
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1 hour ago, scotthldr said:

Poland most definitely fly the Blk52 Advanced.

 

The only Blk52+ jets in Europe are those operated by 340, 343 and 337 Mira of the Hellenic Air Force

Ok, have you got any arguments about that?
Because as far as I know, as far as my friends know, and as far as Polish army knows, Poland's F-16 are all of Block 52+.

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12 hours ago, scotthldr said:

There are 3 versions of the Blk52

Blk52

Blk52+
Blk52 Advanced

I've never seen any F-16 referred to a Block 52 "Advanced" outside of some model box tops. Additionally, I don't think the "Plus" was ever official nomenclature, but just a way to differentiate early vs late production Block 50/52. 

 

With upgrade programs the differences are even more meaningless. The "Tape" version and corresponding hardware upgrades are more important, as this defines the actual capabilities.  You can have a USAF Block 50 built in 1991 upgraded to the latest Tape version that is technically a more capable aircraft than a Polish D+ as delivered. 

 

If you want to keep talking Blocks, the first new build Block 70 rolled off the line in November, but Taiwan has been upgrading it's fleet to Block 70 for a couple years.  The new build Block 70s look like C/Ds and Taiwan's Block 70s look like A/Bs.

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Advanced is referring to all airframes block 50/52 that was delivered after 2005 to overseas users. So "+" make sense to marking these jets as different from USAF ones. Greeks also use 52M aircraft which are different to 52+ in their AF inventory.

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F-16 block 50+/52+ and F-16 "Advanced" are effectively the same. 

The "+" designation is used to identify those block 50/52 buildt to accomodate conformal fuel tanks, which "regular" F-16 block 50/52's aren't. That's why you also will not see the "+" used on block 25/30/32/40/42's or earlier blocks. 
This is why the Polish and last batch of Greek F-16C/D's are block 52+, just as Turkey's last batch are 50+ as examples. Note; "Advanced" is not used

 

Other than that, all F-16's to date which are MLU/CCIP updated follow the same updates as described here: F-16 Versions - F-16 MLU

The MLU designation is used on F-16A/B's while the CCIP was the equivilent for the F-16C/D fleet, and after having separate origins eventualy merged into the same upgrade path wrt tapes. This is further described in the link provided. 

 

Visually, the most notible clue for block 50+/52+'s are the extended tailbase holding the parachute. Further, the CFT's are a dead giveaway in addition to additional antennas under the air intake which you don't find on "regular" block 50/52's. 

 

As for cockpit updates, many of the features of the block 70/72 have already been incorporate into USAF/ANG/AFRC jets; center display unit, APG-83 radar etc. Likely for political reasons, the block 70/72 designation is not actively used for the upgraded airframes 😉   

Edit: After posting this yesterday, I found an article from March 2022 whereby the updates to the US fleet was indeed referred to as block 70/72, hence withdrawing that statement and marking it with strike-through 😉 
 

 

Edited by Niels
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53 minutes ago, Niels said:

F-16 block 50+/52+ and F-16 "Advanced" are effectively the same. 

The "+" designation is used to identify those block 50/52 buildt to accomodate conformal fuel tanks, which "regular" F-16 block 50/52's aren't. That's why you also will not see the "+" used on block 25/30/32/40/42's or earlier blocks. 
This is why the Polish and last batch of Greek F-16C/D's are block 52+, just as Turkey's last batch are 50+ as examples. Note; "Advanced" is not used

 

Other than that, all F-16's to date which are MLU/CCIP updated follow the same updates as described here: F-16 Versions - F-16 MLU

The MLU designation is used on F-16A/B's while the CCIP was the equivilent for the F-16C/D fleet, and after having separate origins eventualy merged into the same upgrade path wrt tapes. This is further described in the link provided. 

 

Visually, the most notible clue for block 50+/52+'s are the extended tailbase holding the parachute. Further, the CFT's are a dead giveaway in addition to additional antennas under the air intake which you don't find on "regular" block 50/52's. 

 

As for cockpit updates, many of the features of the block 70/72 have already been incorporate into USAF/ANG/AFRC jets; center display unit, APG-83 radar etc. Likely for political reasons, the block 70/72 designation is not actively used for the upgraded airframes 😉   


 

 


Thanks for nice explanation.

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1 hour ago, mirage3 said:

Advanced is referring to all airframes block 50/52 that was delivered after 2005 to overseas users. So "+" make sense to marking these jets as different from USAF ones. Greeks also use 52M aircraft which are different to 52+ in their AF inventory.

The Blk52+ and Blk52Adv are different,I cannot put it any simpler. The Blk52M is a local Greek designation given to their Blk52 Adv, which were delivered approximately 10 years after the Blk52+.

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Here is an overview of the deliveries of F-16's to Greece: F-16 Air Forces - Greece

 

If you look at the Block 72 upgrade program for Greece, they requested upgrade of 83 airframes. These 83 airframes are the survivors of the initial batch of 60 block 52+ from Peace Xenia III and the subsequent 30 block 52+ ordered as part of Peace Xenia IV, minus jets lost in operational accidents of all sorts.

These last 30 Peace Xenia IV jets were given the local designation 52M locally, as the benefited from ~3-5 years of development since the first 60 Peace Xenia III jets were delivered. The main difference lies in the tape modification which are descriped in the link I posted earlier. They are still block 52+'s however. F-16.net simply refer to them as block 52's mind you. 

I would guess that the Greeks have upgraded the first 60 block 52+'s to the same tape standard as the later 30 were delivered according to. In this respect, you can argue that the Peace Xenia IV jets are/were more advanced that the Peace Xenia III jets. A difference in tape doesn't introduce anything close to a new block definition, it only signifies which aircraft have different tapes. And those deemed "advanced" may be able to use a wider range of weapons compared to the initial ones. Still no block difference. 
Irrespective of that, all suviving airframes will be upgraded to block 72 within a couple of years, and we don't have to be concerned about this anymore 🙂  

FYI - Greece has also requested upgrades to their older fleet of block 50's, which should be updated to a standard close if not equal to the block 70/72. The original block 30's may inherent leftover radars etc. from the block 50/52 fleet, but to be seen in the future. 
 

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On 1/3/2023 at 12:12 AM, scotthldr said:

There are 3 versions of the Blk52

Blk52

Blk52+
Blk52 Advanced

 

What is your source for this info?  I worked at GD/LM on many F-16 programs over the years, and we never put an "Advanced" label on any F-16 or Block derivative, only "+" .

 

The Block 01/05/10 jets were F-16A & B, and the Block 15 jets were F-16A+ & B+ with the MSIP improvements implemented in Block 15.  The "ultimate" Block 15 was the OCU which foreshadowed many (but not all) of the upcoming Block 25 F-16C/D features.

 

The MLU program was an upgrade to existing Block 10 & 15 jets, those became known as F-16AM & BM.  All MLU jets are FMS, none in USAF.  These MLU upgraded jets were NOT known as Block 20 jets.  Block 20 was a new build jet that included all of the MLU goodies out the factory door.  IIRC Block 20 jets are exclusive to Taiwan, no other users.

 

Block 25/30/32 were known as F-16C & D.  Many of these jets got an avionics upgrade called CUPID which IIRC was similar to, but not as extensive as CCIP.  Regardless, they retained the F-16C & D names.

 

Block 40/42 were initially known as F-16CG & DG.  Block 50/52 were initially known as F-16CJ & DJ.  When these jets received the CCIP upgrade they were collectively known as F-16CM & DM.

 

Block 50+/52+ were new build jets that included all (ok, most) of the CCIP goodies out the factory door, and also included the ability to carry CFTs.  The landing gear and structures were also beefed up to handle the extra weight of the CFTs, this included the drag chute housing to improve (shorten) landing distance with the extra weight.  All 50+ & 52+ jets are FMS, none in USAF.

 

Block 60, as mentioned, was proprietary to UAE, they paid for everything and, interestingly, UAE dealt directly with LM, not the US Government - Block 60 were NOT considered FMS.  The extra avionics cooling systems on the Block 60 did find their way onto the Israeli F-16I, which is still called a Block 52+ even with the Block 60 bits.

 

Clear as mud?  Thought so...

 

Block 70 was after my time, I'm not as familiar with all that encompasses.

 

But again, GD/LM never officially tagged an "Advanced" label onto the name of the jet.  Any such references were applied locally by the users.

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This is lifted from a LM press release back in March 2009 from the delivery ceremony for the first PXIV airframe

 

The Peace Xenia IV purchase program raises the total fighters ordered by the HAF to 170. The aircraft rolled out today is the first of 30 Block 52 Advanced F-16s being produced in the newest lot. 

 

So LM did recognise and use the “Advanced” designation, probably wasn’t commonly used Stateside as as you say all Blk52+/Advanced jets are FMS, however it was commonly used by Greece, Poland, Iraq and Singapore and has been used in countless official documentation. 

 

Anyway this debate is getting away from the OP’s original request.

Edited by scotthldr
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Well my information comes from working at Lockheed in engineering and manufacturing, not marketing and press releases.  I can tell you that Dash 1s and DD250s don't identify any Block versions with an "Advanced" suffix. 

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4 hours ago, scotthldr said:

This is lifted from a LM press release back in March 2009 from the delivery ceremony for the first PXIV airframe

 

The Peace Xenia IV purchase program raises the total fighters ordered by the HAF to 170. The aircraft rolled out today is the first of 30 Block 52 Advanced F-16s being produced in the newest lot. 

 

So LM did recognise and use the “Advanced” designation, probably wasn’t commonly used Stateside as as you say all Blk52+/Advanced jets are FMS, however it was commonly used by Greece, Poland, Iraq and Singapore and has been used in countless official documentation. 

 

Anyway this debate is getting away from the OP’s original request.

Hi,

 

If I were you I would contact with IPMS Hellas and get the help to clarify the situation. Their members include people from the Air Force. They will gladly be helpful to you.

 

Kind regards,

 

 

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