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Hi Jimmy,

Please, I just don't wish to be a nag. It's just I'm such a noob at modelling aircraft that every little discrepancy in shape makes me doubt.

I was looking at the wingtip rails in the Hasegawa 1/48 F-16 kit I'm building, and I noticed that they're different in shape from those Kopecky LAU-129s I ordered.

Here's how the Hasegawa wingtip missile rails look like:

 

mlyn7Tb.jpg

 

You see that in order to graft the Kopecky LAU-129s onto the kit wingtips I will have to leave the bit of plastic south of that red line I drew on the picture?

Kopecky LAU-129s are all straight on the side which is opposite to the rail where the missiles are mounted.

 

2l5QCkl.jpg

 

And to make that even more confusing, I just spotted another "Early F-16 rails" on Honza's webpage, which look just like those in the Hasegawa kit; here:

 

nxrDNGc.jpg

 

What do you think? Should I buy these early rails too for my Chilean F-16 MLU build? I hadn't seen these ones when I ordered the -129s.

Thanks in advance, and please forgive my inveterate noobness.

Cheers,

 

Gwen

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The Hasegawa molds date back to the mid-80s when the STA 1/9 wingtip rails were the 16S210 for use with the AIM-9L/M. The LAU-129 replaced the 16S210 when the AIM-120 was introduced. Later releases of the Hasegawa kit included LAU-129 rails on an added separate tree with instructions to cut off the original rails and replace them with the new parts. 

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Gwen, 

You probably want to keep the LAU-129s, or skip replacing them entirely. The early rail is what is already on the Hasegawa wingtip and is AIM-9 only.  There's no reason you can't keep it. In that case you either leave it empty or use a Sidewinder on it. Some of the Hasegawa's include LAU-129 and the instructions have you cut off the old launch rails to install them.  

 

I've not used the Kopecky rails, but they look designed for a specific kit. Kinetic maybe?  You could try leaving a stub on the wing tip, but the simpler approach would be to fill the notch on the Kopecky part with sheet plastic and glue it flush to a smooth Hasegawa wingtip. Then you need to recreate the wing tip lights, the stubs sticking out of the rail on the Hasegawa kit. (or skip these, most people wouldn't notice)

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On 2/1/2023 at 8:36 PM, habu2 said:

The Hasegawa molds date back to the mid-80s when the STA 1/9 wingtip rails were the 16S210 for use with the AIM-9L/M. The LAU-129 replaced the 16S210 when the AIM-120 was introduced. Later releases of the Hasegawa kit included LAU-129 rails on an added separate tree with instructions to cut off the original rails and replace them with the new parts. 

 

Hi habu,

Thank you very much for your help.

I was told by a Chilean fella that the aircraft I'm building is #734, an F-16BM/MLU, which was in turn J-652 in the Dutch Air Force at Leeuwarden back in 1988, so the airframe was never AIM-120-capable. It was upgraded to Tape 4, and it didn't receive the LAU-129s.

So the 16S210 they are. 

 

On 2/1/2023 at 8:42 PM, Crash Test Dummy said:

In that case you either leave it empty or use a Sidewinder on it. Some of the Hasegawa's include LAU-129 and the instructions have you cut off the old launch rails to install them.  

 

I've not used the Kopecky rails, but they look designed for a specific kit. Kinetic maybe?  

 

Hi Crash Test Dummy (best avatar I've ever seen). 😄

Thanks a lot for your reply.

My intention is to depict the aircraft without missiles, as this is how the aircraft use to fly while there's no turmoil in the region. The wingtips in the Hasegawa kits are beyond awful, even if you hang missiles on them, so I needed to better the look of them.

I'm ordering the 16S210 bits later.

Cheers,

 

Gwen

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On 1/31/2023 at 7:13 PM, kernsc said:

Hope you don't mind if I pile on to the rail discussion.

 

I'm building the Hasegawa 1/48 F-16C Block 30 but want to update to an ANG aircraft operating during OIF, so I need the LAU-129 rails.  It looks like the best option is the Hasegawa Weapons Set E, but those aren't readily available in the US right now (same with Kopecky) so I'm leaning towards either the Eduard IRIS-T missile set, which includes a pair of LAU-129 rails, or, per above, the Flying Leathernecks LAU-127E/A as a "good enough" option.  I'm tempted to rob my Tamiya CJ kit, but the build I have in mind for that kit will use all four LAU-129s.  Any other options I should consider or general advice on offer?

 

Make sure you check you references. The unit I was in, which rainbowed Colorado and Alabama jets, used LAU-129s on the wing tips and AIM-9 rails on underwing adapters.

 

Vern

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2 hours ago, admiralcag said:

 

Make sure you check you references. The unit I was in, which rainbowed Colorado and Alabama jets, used LAU-129s on the wing tips and AIM-9 rails on underwing adapters.

 

Vern

 

Yep, same as Michigan.  I've got Hasegawa Weapons Set E on the way to address that LAU-129 rails.  But looking at this picture makes me realize I'll also need to add the leading edge RWR antennas to update the older kit, which has me thinking maybe I'll simplify this project and mark it up for an 80's aircraft and save this project for a Tamiya kit.

 

aks.jpg?m=1371939467

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3 minutes ago, Gwen Phoenix said:

So the F-16C had a mix of LAU-129s on the wingtips and the 16S210 under the wings?

The 16S210 can only launch AIM-9s while the LAU-129s can launch either AIM-9s or AIM-120s. I'm not an F-16 expert, so I'll accept what someone else mentioned about the F-16A/Bs not being AIM-120 capable, so there would be no reason for them to load the LAU-129s. However, with the F-16C/Ds being AIM-120 capable, either/both rails can be used. You normally see the AIM-120s mounted on the wingtips on -129s and AIM-9s mounted on the outboard wing stations with 16S210s or LAU-129s. The 16S210s have lower drag, so I imagine they'd use those if available.

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6 hours ago, mrvark said:

You normally see the AIM-120s mounted on the wingtips on -129s and AIM-9s mounted on the outboard wing stations with 16S210s or LAU-129s. 

 

AIM-120s on STA 1/9 (wingtips) is preferred due to lower flutter issues compared to AIM-9

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8 hours ago, mrvark said:

The 16S210 can only launch AIM-9s while the LAU-129s can launch either AIM-9s or AIM-120s. I'm not an F-16 expert, so I'll accept what someone else mentioned about the F-16A/Bs not being AIM-120 capable, so there would be no reason for them to load the LAU-129s. However, with the F-16C/Ds being AIM-120 capable, either/both rails can be used. You normally see the AIM-120s mounted on the wingtips on -129s and AIM-9s mounted on the outboard wing stations with 16S210s or LAU-129s. The 16S210s have lower drag, so I imagine they'd use those if available.

Actually the F-16A was capable to use the AIM-120. But, it became so much more effective (deadly) after the MLU upgrade (link 16+++). We (RNoAF) flew 6 F-16A in the offensive CAP role during Allied Force in 1999 armed with 4 AIM-120A on LAU-129 and 2 AIM-9M. The Dutch had a few F-16A MLU that they used in the conflict.

 

Check Six and build something!

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On 2/1/2023 at 11:21 PM, Gwen Phoenix said:

 

 

mlyn7Tb.jpg

I will have to leave the bit of plastic south of that red line I drew on the picture?

 

The cut line is below the Red line in your picture above, flush with the wing.

 

I think the LAU-129’s you show are meant for the Kinetic kit, with the notch on top, but they’ll fit the Hasegawa kit you’ll just need to put an insert in there.

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13 hours ago, WouldbeIceman said:

The Dutch had a few F-16A MLU that they used in the conflict.

 

Hi Iceman,

This is giving me a headache already, sort of. :bandhead2:

This was J652 back in 1988 while still in Dutch Air Force service. Notice that the airframe seems not to have been upgraded yet (no parapack tail and no bird slicer on the nose.

This is 734, the very same aircraft circa 2011 after the upgrade (both parapack tail and bird slicer on the nose), in Chilean Air Force service. 

Wingtip rails are the 16S210 on both aircraft, and this is why I chose to get aftermarket rails for my build. I'm building 734, by the way.

 

13 hours ago, scotthldr said:

The cut line is below the Red line in your picture above, flush with the wing.

 

I think the LAU-129’s you show are meant for the Kinetic kit, with the notch on top, but they’ll fit the Hasegawa kit you’ll just need to put an insert in there.

 

Hi Scott,

At first I didn't make out the difference between the LAU-129s and the 16S210 and how the rails were mounted on the wingtips of the Vipers, so I was told that the Chilean F-16 MLUs used the former on their wingtips, hence I got the LAU-129s. So I assumed that I needed to leave the bit of plastic below the red line to graft those pylons onto the Hasegawa kit wingtips. 

But then I was told that the early birds (got the worms :gr_eek2:) actually used the latter. 

I had already ordered the LAU-129s when I realised I needed the 16S210 ones instead, so I might still keep the former ones when I build the Chilean F-16C in future. The cut to graft the LAU-129s onto the F-16C wingtips I understand is flush with the wing, yes. And I'm using a Kinetic kit for my next Viper build.

Cheers,

 

Gwen

 

P.S: Stop making me confused! :rofl:  

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The AIM-120 requires LAU-129 rails when carried, so also the AIM-9X. So when modeling a jet carrying these you have to use the LAU-129 rails. Through time, as already stated by others, a mix of the old 16S210 and LAU-129 was carried. Usually LAU-129 on wingtips and 16S210 beneath, but in later years only LAU-129 in all locations. 

 

As for Chile, they use a mix of both. LAU-129's when carrying AIM-120 which they don't do too often from the photos I've seen. Then they often carry the "old" 16S210 rails. 
A fun-fact is also that Chile has Python IV missiles in their inventory, mainly for their F-5 fleet. However, the F-16 can also carry this missile, and then usually carried on 16S210 rails. This may account for why Chile often is seen with 16S210 rails, even these days? 

In the end, make the model as you like unless you absolutely have to have perfect accuracy 😊👍

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Anyone know how big of a job it is for the maintenance (or armament?) crews to swap out a wingtip rail?  I imagine it's pretty routine for the pylon mounted rails, but suspect the wingtip mounts are a bit more involved and therefore probably don't change very often?

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No clue. But as most of the European F-16 users have opted for what I would call standardizing on the LAU-129, it tells you that there are benefits from having one type of rail on the jets, as this gives you flexibility on where to load AIM-120's, AIM-9X, IRIS-T's vs. older model AIM-9 missiles.  

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On 2/8/2023 at 8:19 PM, kernsc said:

Anyone know how big of a job it is for the maintenance (or armament?) crews to swap out a wingtip rail?  I imagine it's pretty routine for the pylon mounted rails, but suspect the wingtip mounts are a bit more involved and therefore probably don't change very often?

Actually the wingtips were easier. Three bolts and one connector. The hardest part was holding the rail up while the connector was attached. I'm tall enough, so I used my head 😆

 

The underwing adapters were trickier in that the connector attached under the flap seal at a really ugly angle. This was the only cannon plug we were allowed to use a screwdriver on to tighten or loosen. We typically mounted the rail to the adapter before mounting them to the jet.

 

Vern

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