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Need help with an airbrush problem


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I have a Paasche Talon TG dual action brush that Ive had for the better part of a year (and so far only used once...if you call it that). Took it out of the box for the first time yesterday, and all it would do is blow bubbles out of the gravity feed bowl. Doesnt shoot paint except a few spurts here and there. Ive disassembled it, checked all of the o-rings (on the tip, in the valve stem, ON the valve stem, seal around the hose connector) and all of them I replaced just to make sure.

 

Still bubbles out of the cup. I tried with thinned paint, then paint thinner, then soapy water.

 

Ive checked 3 different needles and tips. Ive checked 3 different nozzles.  Ive Vasoline'd the ever loving crap out of it hoping to stop any back leak into the cup, and for the life of me I cant get this thing to spray paint. Seems like Ive had a bit of bad luck with this particular airbrush; this is the second one Ive had of the same SKU - literally have 2 of these. The first one just broke after about a month of use. Happened when I tried to replace the o-ring on the valve stem - used the allen wrench to pull the stem out and it broke the retaining pin that holds the whole thing into place.

 

Any ideas? Im about to toss this wonderful POS into the trash and switch to an Iwata...and my paasche compressor isnt really compatible with one. I shoot all my projects under 20psi, yet Ive tried all the way from 10-60 psi with no luck.

Edited by utley
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Does air come out the tip? If yes but you get bubbles back into the paint cup most often that is a result of the nozzle needing a thorough cleaning. https://www.midwestairbrush.com/patapa.html Part TT in the diagram is probably the culprit. Give it a good soaking in paint thinner and then clean it out, I use these dental brushes - 10 pack found in the dental section of groceries and drug stores.

Edited by Chuck1945
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Its a new brush, nozzle, everything. The nozzles are clean, and were cleaned again afterwards. Its about as clean as new gets....3 different needles, 3 different nozzles, 3 different tips. They arent dirty.

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I was going to say pretty much what Chuck has said, I use the Talon as well. It can be a fussy little beast sometimes.

Couple of questions, will it shoot water or thinner? Do you have an inline moisture trap?

I've had issues before like this, and at the risk of sounding stupid... it's almost like its constipated. When I've had this issue, and regularly too, it seems to be too much water somewhere in the line and not a build up of paint. I live in a high humidity area. I'll blow out the inline moisture trap and dry out the compressor one with some paper towel. Then it sprays without any problems.

I really hope that helps!

Andy

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I havent used the compressor in a few months and the filter is dry. Ive tried shooting water, thinner, paint, soapy water...hell I even dipped the thing in soap to see if it has an air leak around any threaded areas. Its blowing straight into the bowl. I can 100% guarantee you the gun is clean.

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At this point, I don't know... does the needle move back with the trigger? Stupid question I know. Try disconnecting the airbrush from the hose and turning on the compressor... could be a blockage in the line. If everything is new and clean and lubed, I'm stumped! If it has never sprayed anything, it might be a manufacturing fault.

Just trying to problem solve... and I'm definitely no expert!

Andy

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With no paint in the cup, will just air come out the tip when you depress and pull back the trigger? If air is coming out under pressure, there is probably nothing wrong with the airline and air flow from the compressor. If air is coming out but paint or even water in the cup bubbles back up into the cup, something is restricting the paint flow. I’m not familiar with the Talon, it’s been perhaps 30 years since I used a Paasche brush, so I can’t offer any Talon specific advice, but if air is flowing and paint is bubbling back it is most likely something in the paint flow system, nozzle that isn’t as clean as it should be or even damaged. Also the needle or tip could perhaps be damaged. I use H&S brushes and about three years ago my 0.2mm needle and nozzle were causing problems similar to what you are describing. I finally sent them off and it turned the nozzle was ever so slightly deformed. 95% of the time though if there is bubble back, it means I didn’t clean it as well as I thought I had.

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Yeah, air sprays from the tip. Seems like only positive pressure in the cup will force paint out. I get -slightly- better results with the lid on the cup but thats for a moment or so. See, some of these nozzles I know to be good as I shot paint from them with my last gun, so Id at least know if it was the kit nozzle and needle that failed, nothing works. I cant see any debris or damage in the opening...but yeah I cant see that far down the line either. Really thinking my gun might be defective and Im not sure what Paasche's warranty is like...and having gone through 2 of them now. Think theres a hairline crack in the needle valve somewhere.

 

Any recommendations for a new dual action airbrush? Even if Paasche warranties it out (which I doubt), Im done throwing money at them. Would love something where I can spray fine lines to large areas.

Edited by utley
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I just returned a Talon for the same problem. The body wasn’t machined correctly, resulting in the nozzle cap not seating all the way against the o-ring and causing backflow into the cup. Three caps did the same thing. It also had a cracked tip out of the box. What a piece of garbage. Leave it to Paasche and Badger to further the stereotype regarding American manufacturing. 
 

Bought a GSI Creos Procon Boy PS-289 and never looked back. 

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Im sending my gun back to paasche to see whats wrong with it. I already bought me an Iwata Neo...doesnt do all the things my Talon did by a long shot...but its good enough until I figure out how to change needles and nozzles on it. Yeah Im more than irritated at this point with Paasche, this shouldnt even be an issue. One of the simplest and oldest tools...

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On 1/26/2023 at 1:25 PM, CFster said:

I just returned a Talon for the same problem. The body wasn’t machined correctly, resulting in the nozzle cap not seating all the way against the o-ring and causing backflow into the cup. Three caps did the same thing. It also had a cracked tip out of the box. What a piece of garbage. Leave it to Paasche and Badger to further the stereotype regarding American manufacturing. 
 

Bought a GSI Creos Procon Boy PS-289 and never looked back. 

As I'm in the camp in relation to the Talon, could I ask a couple of questions regarding the Procon?

My main focus is 1/48 cold war and post cold war jets, does this airbrush suit the scale? 

I'm reasonably good with airbrushing, I'm more interested in how it performs with detail and larger areas. I'd love to make the Talon a secondary use airbrush for metallics, but I'm interested in the general use before I make the purchase.

Andy

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1 hour ago, ExchefAndy said:

As I'm in the camp in relation to the Talon, could I ask a couple of questions regarding the Procon?

My main focus is 1/48 cold war and post cold war jets, does this airbrush suit the scale? 

I'm reasonably good with airbrushing, I'm more interested in how it performs with detail and larger areas. I'd love to make the Talon a secondary use airbrush for metallics, but I'm interested in the general use before I make the purchase.

Andy


Well the Talon comes with a .38 needle set out of the box, or as a .25, .38 and .66 kit. The Procon Boy PS-289 is a .3, and the PS-270 is a .2. The needle, nozzle and tips are interchangeable between these two. The .5 size PS-266 is a different design and parts are not interchangeable with the first two. There is also the .18 size PS-771 for extremely fine detailed work. Before I owned my PS-89 I thought I needed multiple needle sizes to accomplish all my tasks, so I had several cheap Chinese airbrushes and then the Talon kit. I got into the habit of constantly changing out needles and nozzles etc., and that caused problems - wiped out tips, a bent needle or two. Then I got the PS-289 with the intention of keeping an older .5 brush I had for primer. But I don’t use the older brush. The Procon just sprays everything beautifully for me. Primer, color, Future, clears, metallics. I build the same scale models you do and it works for me. Excellent atomization and I can shoot at lower pressure than anything I’ve ever owned. I’ve had no desire to own a .2 or .18.  Of course for very large areas a .5 brush is going to cover more but I just make more passes. I’ll probably get one in the future just to have it. The rumor is these are built in the same factory as Iwatas and some parts are interchangeable but I haven’t confirmed that. 
 

Now for the bad. As far as I know the GSI’s have no warranty, and their only distributor in the U.S (not sure where you are…) is Spraygunner who has excellent customer service. What you’re buying with a comparable Iwata HP-CS (and that’s what I would compare it directly with) for twice the price is a warranty and parts availability from more vendors. 

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Thank you for the info! I have been there and done that in regards to the Talon's needles too, damn frustrating. You've helped me decide what I'm going to do today, buy a new airbrush! Hopefully without too much dramas, as they seem to be in rather short supply here in Australia.

Thanks again your help is appreciated :thumbsup:

Andy

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10 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

The needle nozzle isnt tight enough.

That is the only reason the air would feed back into the paint cup.


I had a Paasche that the head literally wouldn’t screw on far enough to contact the o-ring. Massive backflow through the cup. 
 

779E5EFB-CA3F-40A0-8108-C7DB60202EE9

 

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Paasche sent me a replacement today, hopefully it fares better this time around. Took the Neo back, didnt much care for it. Good gun for spraying, but thought it was strange I couldnt change the needle out and get better lines out of it.

Edited by utley
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On 2/1/2023 at 4:55 AM, CFster said:


I had a Paasche that the head literally wouldn’t screw on far enough to contact the o-ring. Massive backflow through the cup. 
 

779E5EFB-CA3F-40A0-8108-C7DB60202EE9

 

That is the only reason why the air would feed back into the colour cup.

Somewhere between the air port and the end of the nozzle there is a leak.

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  • 2 months later...
  • 4 months later...

I have 2 talons now...one was a replacement from Paasche for the first defective one, and the other was a spare I found on craigslist a while ago. These things are just utter garbage.3 of them, all 3 of them defective just blowing bubbles into the paint cup. Im going to email Paasche again and tell them I need replacement airbrushes since these things are under warranty. But Im going to flat out tell him they better replace them with Iwata brushes instead of this garbage. At this point they can keep this crap.

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i'm really sorry for all the troubles you've had.  I had trouble with a number of Badger SOTAR brushes (not the same issue, though) which were highly recommended, and I think I got 3 of them, and they were all garbage.  I parted with them as used equipment for a $$ loss, but good riddance. Just my experience.  

 

I'll quote CFster here about the Procon Boy products: "The Procon Boy PS-289 is a .3, and the PS-270 is a .2. The needle, nozzle and tips are interchangeable between these two.....There is also the .18 size PS-771 for extremely fine detailed work."  I have all 3 of these airbrushes, and they are truly fantastic tools.  I cannot recommend them highly enough.  Though the 770/771 is pricier than the 289/270, it is comparable to the  Iwata Micron series at about 1/3 the price, but it is a fabulous airbrush.  The other two are really reasonably priced and as good, in my humble opinion, as the Iwata HP C Plus, which I have, but never use.  I have both a Procon PS-770 and PS-771 (the only difference is finish), and both a Harder and Steenbeck Evolution and Infiniti, but I only ever use the one of three PS-270s that I have (yes, I'm something of an airbrush doofus with all these great brushes that don't get used).  But if you feel the need for a larger needle, I'm sure the  PS-266 would be fine, though I don't own one.  Basically, I use the PS-270, along with an old Paasche H model for larger spray jobs such as primer or clear coat.  As long as you properly dilute your paint, the PS-270 will shoot just about anything, and after using for several years, I have NEVER torn it down for cleaning, not even once...it gets along fine with a thorough cleaning of the needle and color cup/nozzle using lacquer thinner by blowing the thinner through the brush until it's clear after each day of use (though I do pull the needle and clean it with a paper towel and lacquer thinner), but it beats a tear down!

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I have an Iwata airbrush I bought for such an occasion. I cant believe Paasche has gone this far downhill. I have 4 airbrushes, 3 of them are Paasches, and the one that works isnt a Paasche.

Edited by utley
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