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1/72 KC-135R Engines


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SCM lists the following options for 1/72 CFM-56 engines for the KC-135.  Granted, the DB Production sets were passed to Flightpath, who is also now OOP.  Contrails is available. Ha-Hen is not a CFM-56 engine, just detail parts and flaps.  I would try the Air-Graphics set myself. 

 

As an alternative, some individuals have used spare CFM-56s from the Airfix E-3D/F Sentry kit (built as a standard E-3A/B/C.)  Have fun storming the castle!

Edited by Dutch
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3 hours ago, Quixote74 said:

What's the source indicating the Fightpath set as OOP? Their website still lists them:

https://www.djparkins.com/product.php?productid=17944&cat=248&page=2

 

3 hours ago, sigtau said:

Indeed, I ordered two sets from them last year, shipped to the USA with no issues.

 

I also thought the Flightpath engines were OOP, I had an old link to the website for the engines and it was dead so after a quick look around I could not find them on the website, his menu system is not intuitive (to me at least!). 

Edited by Trojan Thunder
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Are there differences in the pylons between the KC series engines and the E-3/6 series with their longer chord wing?  Seems like I read that somewhere.  And those Contrail pieces look rough.  Not only do we need another option, we desperately need TF-33 engines as well with all the options for inboard and outboard pylons, with and without TC hoods.  There's some resin TFs on ebay from South America but honestly they look like hand carved parts.  Come on you 3D printer people.  There's money to be made.

 

Rick L.

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2 hours ago, Spruemeister said:

Are there differences in the pylons between the KC series engines and the E-3/6 series with their longer chord wing?  Seems like I read that somewhere.  And those Contrail pieces look rough.  Not only do we need another option, we desperately need TF-33 engines as well with all the options for inboard and outboard pylons, with and without TC hoods.  There's some resin TFs on ebay from South America but honestly they look like hand carved parts.  Come on you 3D printer people.  There's money to be made.

 

Rick L.

Thought I posted here, but I don't see it; LOL.

I have a set of contours I bought via ebay.  Very rough and heavy.

My question (which vanished) is the Airfix kit a KC-135 or E-3? If it's a 135 will the flightpath engines work on the AMT planes?

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The CFM-56 engines in production from Flightpath are for the E-3 AWACS not the KC-135.

Right engine wrong pylons apareltly.

 

There was a UK based ebay seller who had some RC-135W conversions a while back that included the CFM-56 engines, but didnt have the larger horizontal stabs so you would need the EC-135C kit not a KC-135A as a starting point. Or remove the nose from the RC-135V kit.

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14 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

The CFM-56 engines in production from Flightpath are for the E-3 AWACS not the KC-135.

Right engine wrong pylons apparently.

 

There was a UK based ebay seller who had some RC-135W conversions a while back that included the CFM-56 engines, but didn't have the larger horizontal stabs so you would need the EC-135C kit not a KC-135A as a starting point. Or remove the nose from the RC-135V kit.

 

That is a good point about whether the engines are meant for a KC-135 or a 707/E-3 kit.  The pylons are completely different between these two aircraft.     

 

I do remember that Maintrack (UK) offered a set of TF-33s (JT3D) & pylons, but can't remember if it was for the 707/E-3D/F or the KC-135. This would have been late 1980s to early 1990s.  I did own a set of all their long/short, inner/outer, turbo-hood/no turbo-hood pylons & resin JT3D engines & extended tailplanes back in the mid 1990s for a RC-135U project. (They also offered the NKC-135A ARIA, RC-135V & U bits, but that's another thread).  If I remember correctly, the Maintrack pylons were sold as a set with different inner and outer pylons, but could also be procured separately with or without the turbo hoods. I just can't remember if the inner pylons were the long 707 type versus the short KC-135 type.

 

This reminds me about the guy who goes to the convenience store to buy a pack of cigarettes, (normally kept on a rack behind the clerk, so you had to ask.)

Guy: I'd like a pack of cigarettes.

Clerk: Regular length or extra long?

Guy: Uh,... regular.

Clerk: Regular or menthol? 

Guy: Uh, .... regular.

Clerk: Low tar?

Guy: Um, ... no regular.

Clerk: Rough or smooth cut?

Guy: Uh, .... smooth.

Clerk: Paper wrapper or crush-proof box?

Guy: Aw forget it! I'll take a pack of gum instead.

Clerk: Wintergreen, Spearmint, or Juicy Fruit?

Guy: arghhhh!  (running out of the store.)
 

 

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Yes, whatever project is to be modeled there needs to be correct parts.  This isn't a one size fits all.  And the Air Graphics parts may be nice but the problem is the same with all resin casters.  The need to carry stock, and when they are out its often long waits for restock.  That's why the 3D print on demand to me makes more sense. 

 

Rick L.

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12 hours ago, Spruemeister said:

Yes, whatever project is to be modeled there needs to be correct parts.  This isn't a one size fits all.  And the Air Graphics parts may be nice but the problem is the same with all resin casters.  The need to carry stock, and when they are out its often long waits for restock.  That's why the 3D print on demand to me makes more sense. 

 

Rick L.

Rick, I agree with you there, but there is no 3D printed CFM-56 engines and pylons for a KC-135R.  That's the issue. Hence my recommendation for the Air-Graphics set.  They are designed to fit the AMT/ERTL, Heller KC-135 kits.  If Flightpath is still in production, then yes, get those, but you have to modify the pylons. I hate grinding on resin.  So that lead me to my last suggestion of getting a spare set of Airfix E-3D/F CFM-56s with the wrong 707 pylons.  At least cutting and grinding on styrene is easier.  K/r, Dutch

Edited by Dutch
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On 1/31/2023 at 9:14 PM, Da SWO said:

My question (which vanished) is the Airfix kit a KC-135 or E-3? If it's a 135 will the flightpath engines work on the AMT planes?

 

As others have noted, the engines are effectively the same but the pylons are different because the 135 series has a different wing from the 707/E-3.

 

To summarize a subject that gets pretty complicated thanks to nearly 70 years of development history:

 

The "Mother of All 707s" was the Boeing 367-80 ("Dash 80") prototype, which is the common ancestor of all 707 airliners and C-135 tanker/transport variants.

 

The Dash 80 and C-135 and all KC/RC/EC variants have a 'narrow chord' wing, with the trailing edge as a straight line (other than the root fillet).  The 135 is what Boeing originally called the Model 717.  The AMT KC-135 kit represents this airframe in 1:72 and has been reboxed in several variants by AMTech, Italeri, ESCI, and Heller.

 

The earliest 707 airliners had the same wing as the C-135, but longer fuselage with some shape differences from the 135. Most production airliners used a later wing with an extended chord center section.  The only 1:72 kit of this type is Heller's 707 tooling which was also modified for an AWACS and reboxed by Airfix.  The official US military designation of this variant is C-137, but it's become much better-known for its specialty variants such as the E-3 Sentry AWACS, E-6 Mercury TACAMO, and E-8 JSTARS, all of which were new-build or conversions of the airliner airframes with the extended chord wing.  Ironically those variant designations are all deviations from the official designation system that would have categorized them as C-137 variants - in fact the prototype E-3s were originally designated as 'EC-137D'

 

TLDR:

Tanker/Transport/Recon variants:

C-135 (Boeing 717): AMT and reboxings

 

Airliner, AWACS, and other variants:

C-137 (Boeing 707): Heller or Airfix

Edited by Quixote74
typo correction
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An additional note on the otherwise excellent variant brief from Quixote74. The military designation "C-137" spanned both "707" variants. The three original VC-137A models were 707-123 airliners with the early wing that was also common to the KC-135 family. These three were set up as transports for VIPs and were the first jet transports for presidential use. Eisenhower and Kennedy flew in them. When they were modified with new fan engines, the designation changed to VC-137B. They served as backups for the  presidential aircraft when the new jets came on board. The VC-137C were 707-320 liners with a slightly streteched fuselage and the new wing that had a greater span and area - the Heller kit depicts this type. When I made my VC-137A "Queenie," I shortened the Heller fuselage and mated it to the AMT KC-135A kit wings and tailplanes. The early "organ pipe" engines were resin parts from HaHen.

 

2035469902_DSCN8840copy.JPG

 

Edited by Paul Boyer
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21 hours ago, Dutch said:

 

That is a good point about whether the engines are meant for a KC-135 or a 707/E-3 kit.  The pylons are completely different between these two aircraft.     

 

I do remember that Maintrack (UK) offered a set of TF-33s (JT3D) & pylons, but can't remember if it was for the 707/E-3D/F or the KC-135. This would have been late 1980s to early 1990s.  I did own a set of all their long/short, inner/outer, turbo-hood/no turbo-hood pylons & resin JT3D engines & extended tailplanes back in the mid 1990s for a RC-135U project. (They also offered the NKC-135A ARIA, RC-135V & U bits, but that's another thread).  If I remember correctly, the Maintrack pylons were sold as a set with different inner and outer pylons, but could also be procured separately with or without the turbo hoods. I just can't remember if the inner pylons were the long 707 type versus the short KC-135 type.

 

This reminds me about the guy who goes to the convenience store to buy a pack of cigarettes, (normally kept on a rack behind the clerk, so you had to ask.)

Guy: I'd like a pack of cigarettes.

Clerk: Regular length or extra long?

Guy: Uh,... regular.

Clerk: Regular or menthol? 

Guy: Uh, .... regular.

Clerk: Low tar?

Guy: Um, ... no regular.

Clerk: Rough or smooth cut?

Guy: Uh, .... smooth.

Clerk: Paper wrapper or crush-proof box?

Guy: Aw forget it! I'll take a pack of gum instead.

Clerk: Wintergreen, Spearmint, or Juicy Fruit?

Guy: arghhhh!  (running out of the store.)
 

 

Maintrack sold his KC-135 stuff (if they were for the 135) to Whirlybird models, who sold them to Freightdog, who is thinking about bring them into production but waiting on Italeri releasing their 135 kits again to make it worth while.

 

TF-33 has completely different pylons to the CFM-56 so of no use in this instance anyway.

 

  

16 hours ago, Spruemeister said:

Yes, whatever project is to be modeled there needs to be correct parts.  This isn't a one size fits all.  And the Air Graphics parts may be nice but the problem is the same with all resin casters.  The need to carry stock, and when they are out its often long waits for restock.  That's why the 3D print on demand to me makes more sense. 

 

Rick L.

That is what Im waiting for now.
All we really need is pre supported STL files.

 

Edited by ElectroSoldier
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I'm just trying to get on with the AMT EC-135C build that has stalled because of the hideous TF-33 kit parts. However, back to the original issue; if new/good/available CMF-56 engines would come on the scene I could build multiple R tankers/RC birds as well as a TACAMO E-6.  We really need both engines.  I had a short conversation with Click2Detail about it but it went nowhere as I suspect there are too many irons in the fire over there right now.  They already have the TF-33 compressor face and inlet guide vanes designed for their 1/72 C-141 and B-52H engine sets so I would think the rest would be doable.  

 

And that VC-135A build is one of my all time favorites, Paul. 

 

Rick L. 

Edited by Spruemeister
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10 hours ago, Paul Boyer said:

An additional note on the otherwise excellent variant brief from Quixote74. The military designation "C-137" spanned both "707" variants. The three original VC-137A models were 707-123 airliners with the early wing that was also common to the KC-135 family. These three were set up as transports for VIPs and were the first jet transports for presidential use. Eisenhower and Kennedy flew in them. When they were modified with new fan engines, the designation changed to VC-137B. They served as backups for the  presidential aircraft when the new jets came on board. The VC-137C were 707-320 liners with a slightly streteched fuselage and the new wing that had a greater span and area - the Heller kit depicts this type. When I made my VC-137A "Queenie," I shortened the Heller fuselage and mated it to the AMT KC-135A kit wings and tailplanes. The early "organ pipe" engines were resin parts from HaHen.

 

2035469902_DSCN8840copy.JPG

 

Thanks for the additional info - gorgeous build! I have to acknowledge I first learned about the Dash 80 when I read your conversion build article in Fine Scale Modeler backdating the AMT 135 🙂

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17 hours ago, Spruemeister said:

I'm just trying to get on with the AMT EC-135C build that has stalled because of the hideous TF-33 kit parts. However, back to the original issue; if new/good/available CMF-56 engines would come on the scene I could build multiple R tankers/RC birds as well as a TACAMO E-6.  We really need both engines.  I had a short conversation with Click2Detail about it but it went nowhere as I suspect there are too many irons in the fire over there right now.  They already have the TF-33 compressor face and inlet guide vanes designed for their 1/72 C-141 and B-52H engine sets so I would think the rest would be doable.  

 

And that VC-135A build is one of my all time favorites, Paul. 

 

Rick L. 

The TF-33 engines are the reason all my EC-135, RC-135 models have gone nowhere.
Im hoping 3D printing will change all that

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47 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

The TF-33 engines are the reason all my EC-135, RC-135 models have gone nowhere.
Im hoping 3D printing will change all that

Trade?

 

I have a set of contour CFM-56's that I will not need.

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