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Why Tamiya has not addressed the main complaint of their kits?


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The first thing I do when I get a new kit is open it up and fondle the sprues, looking for broken or missing parts, and bagging any loose parts.

 

The second thing I do when I get a new kit is place the decal sheet in a ziploc bag.  If the decals didn't come with a protective paper sheet I cut a piece of parchment paper and include it with the ziploc'd decals.  Over time, humidity and temperature can affect any decal sheet, regardless of manufacturer.  I also ziploc any aftermarket decal sheets that are not ziploc'd by the manufacturer.  To me it's common sense to protect my investment.

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I guess in the end I argue Tamiya decals are not as bad as people make out because I have been building a very long time and remember using much worse decals than what Tamiya make and while not perfect they seem to be consistently usable.  It used to be decal sheets were just thrown in the box and the quality was very poor the film silvered when you applied them to the model, or you had to trim the decal film because it was excessive.  Tamiya kits and tamiya decals seem to have much the same minds set they just work.  You might be able to find a better solution if you want to but if you go to your hobby shop buy the kit, take it home build it and use hte kit decals you are probably going to get an acceptable result.  It may not satisfy a AMS modeler but it will work for the average person who is not that experienced.

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14 hours ago, Scott Smith said:

I wonder if decals are sitting on the cardboard absorbing acids for it? Kind of like artwork?  Supposed to use acid free backers on pic frames? 

I've been thinking about doing an experiment with their decals to see if it helps to make them last longer. I normally store my decals in acid free paper or just leave them in the kits they came in. I'm now thinking about a way to vac seal them (seal a meal) to remove all the air from them. If it works, one would save some money

gary

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9 hours ago, ChesshireCat said:

 I'm now thinking about a way to vac seal them (seal a meal) to remove all the air from them.

 

With ziploc bags I just close them in a book with the "zipper" slightly outside the pages, this forces all the air out before zipping the bag closed.  You can buy generic bags in a variety of sizes on amazon and ebay, costs a lot less than store bought brand name bags.  

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Can't remember who it was, one of the modellers with a youtube channel made a video comparing the thickness of Tamiya decals to other brands with micrometer the last time this subject came up. Tested film thickness, white, single color and multi color parts of the decals. And Tamiya decals are no thicker or barely thicker than Eduard or Cartograph.

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I've used Tamiya decals on 3 1/32 Corsairs and 5 P-51's  (insignia and stencils) they settle down in panel lines just as good as Cartograph. 

 

But I do agree they are a little thicker but after clear coat and weathering it's hardly noticeable.

 

Don

 

 

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14 hours ago, Inquisitor said:

Can't remember who it was, one of the modellers with a youtube channel made a video comparing the thickness of Tamiya decals to other brands with micrometer the last time this subject came up. Tested film thickness, white, single color and multi color parts of the decals. And Tamiya decals are no thicker or barely thicker than Eduard or Cartograph.

Its not a matter of how thick they are its how they look once theyre down.

 

If they werent a problem to some people then this thread wouldnt exist, so there is clearly something about them that to some people let the kits as a whole product down because the engineering of the plastic parts cant be faulted

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Different decals can be the same thickness and have different ductility/flexibility so you can't just go by thickness. 

 

I remember many years ago Monogram had two different types of decals that had different reactions to settling solutions, there was a suffix code printed on the sheet(s) to differentiate them.

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7 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Its not a matter of how thick they are its how they look once theyre down.

 

If they werent a problem to some people then this thread wouldnt exist, so there is clearly something about them that to some people let the kits as a whole product down because the engineering of the plastic parts cant be faulted

If it's not the thickness as some people, including OP, complain about.

On 1/31/2023 at 9:25 AM, dai phan said:

Hi all,

 

If you are into modeling, you know Tamiya kits are pretty high end kits with excellent fit and engineering. Their biggest drawback is the quality of the decals. Yes they are nicely printed, good register but so darn thick I cannot use them. For years and years while Tamiya kits are getting better and better leaving the competitors behind, they have not addressed the poor decal issue. What gives??? Dai 

And that's why more than likely there's the stiffness of the film and how the decal react to setting solutions is the probable problem.

I remember the same kind of complains were said about ICM's and Begemot's decals, someone complained about them being too stiff and thick and not setting in a MiG-25 build. That modeller used micro set and micro sol. Whereas I've used gunze's solutions in my builds using both brand of decals, they set nicely and disappear after a thin layer of clear just as good as any cartograf one.

Also another modeller had a video testing different brands of solutions on several brands of decals which comes back to the problem most likely being the stiffness and reaction to the dozens of solutions and not the thickness.

Edited by Inquisitor
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 Their 1/48 aircrafts are not flying off the shelves... Serves them right for not doing a Spitfire for 24 years and a Me-109 for 19... Or a P-40 ever.

 

 Try to find on the shelves a J1N1, Swordfish, Do-335, Fi-156 Storch, Aichi Seiran...: A decade's worth of Tamiya 1/48 output that I haven't seen on the shelves (or even built) literally in decades. Even the Heinkel He-219 is rarely seen any more. 

 

  The worst problem of Tamiya (until recently) was their dumb 1/48 subject choices for 15 years. I doubt they make a fortune off the 1997-2012 part of that range. 

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On 2/8/2023 at 3:08 AM, WymanV said:

Indeed...

 

 (sigh) Now I have to go through all my Tamiya kits and throw the decals away, lest I never become an intermediate modeler 😞

Same here! I was about to start opening up Tamiya boxes, when I realized that maybe, just maybe, Dai's definition of intermediate didn't matter to me. 🙂

Personally, I've never had a problem with Tamiya decals.

ALF

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Try using hot water, around drinkable tea/coffee temperature. You will need tweezers for this to dig it out of the hot water avoids burns to the fingers. Gunze Mr Setter & Mr Softer or Daco Strong are the recommended decal solutions (used sparingly as they are quite strong, and don't use on thinner type decals, they will be ruined). It may well look as if it's wrinkling lots, but leave it alone, it should sort itself out when dry.

 

As ever with new methods, try it out on unneeded/spare decals and a paint mule before committing to your latest masterpiece.

 

---------------

 

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On 2/12/2023 at 4:28 AM, Robertson said:

The worst problem of Tamiya (until recently) was their dumb 1/48 subject choices for 15 years. I doubt they make a fortune off the 1997-2012 part of that range. 

 

 

In 1998 alone, they released 1/48 scale kits of the F4D Skyray, F-117 Nighthawk, and F-84G Thunderjet. I would hardly call those dumb subject choices. It all depends on what you want them to release, which is a personal opinion. Tamiya does what Tamiya does.

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On 2/23/2023 at 2:46 AM, Darren Roberts said:

 

In 1998 alone, they released 1/48 scale kits of the F4D Skyray, F-117 Nighthawk, and F-84G Thunderjet. I would hardly call those dumb subject choices. It all depends on what you want them to release, which is a personal opinion. Tamiya does what Tamiya does.

 

 I have almost never seen the Skyray in hobby shops in 20 years, much less a built one. No 1/48 Spitfire offer for 24 years, no P-40 ever, no 109 for 19 years, no Ki-43 ever (more famous on the Japanese market than the Zero), no Zero for 30 plus years, and no P-51 for 28 years. Plus no high back Spitfire XIV ever, which the market is still waiting for... But a J1N1 yes. An Aichi Seiran yes (another one, like the Swordfish, I haven't seen built in decades, even online). These guys are simply geniuses. Given their position as market leaders, and the fact 1/48 is still the most popular aircraft scale in most surveys, the harm they are doing to the hobby is incalculable. Thank God Eastern Europe is finally picking up the black hole they left behind.

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3 hours ago, Robertson said:

Given their position as market leaders, and the fact 1/48 is still the most popular aircraft scale in most surveys, the harm they are doing to the hobby is incalculable. 

 

LOL

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20 hours ago, Robertson said:

 

 I have almost never seen the Skyray in hobby shops in 20 years, much less a built one. No 1/48 Spitfire offer for 24 years, no P-40 ever, no 109 for 19 years, no Ki-43 ever (more famous on the Japanese market than the Zero), no Zero for 30 plus years, and no P-51 for 28 years. Plus no high back Spitfire XIV ever, which the market is still waiting for... But a J1N1 yes. An Aichi Seiran yes (another one, like the Swordfish, I haven't seen built in decades, even online). These guys are simply geniuses. Given their position as market leaders, and the fact 1/48 is still the most popular aircraft scale in most surveys, the harm they are doing to the hobby is incalculable. Thank God Eastern Europe is finally picking up the black hole they left behind.

Tamiya tends to be very conservative in their releases. Too bland in my taste. How about Mig 19 or 17? Dai 

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On 2/9/2023 at 12:43 PM, DONG said:

I've used Tamiya decals on 3 1/32 Corsairs and 5 P-51's  (insignia and stencils) they settle down in panel lines just as good as Cartograph. 

 

But I do agree they are a little thicker but after clear coat and weathering it's hardly noticeable.

 

Don

 

 

You may get away with 1/32 but on 1/48 and 1/72, not really. Dai 

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On 2/24/2023 at 6:56 AM, Robertson said:

 

 I have almost never seen the Skyray in hobby shops in 20 years, much less a built one. No 1/48 Spitfire offer for 24 years, no P-40 ever, no 109 for 19 years, no Ki-43 ever (more famous on the Japanese market than the Zero), no Zero for 30 plus years, and no P-51 for 28 years. Plus no high back Spitfire XIV ever, which the market is still waiting for... But a J1N1 yes. An Aichi Seiran yes (another one, like the Swordfish, I haven't seen built in decades, even online). These guys are simply geniuses. Given their position as market leaders, and the fact 1/48 is still the most popular aircraft scale in most surveys, the harm they are doing to the hobby is incalculable. Thank God Eastern Europe is finally picking up the black hole they left behind.

I'm a bit confused by your statement. The original statement was that between the years of 1997 - 2012, they didn't release anything that was worth buying, but then you pivot and say you're thankful for the Eastern European companies picking up for the black hole Tamiya left behind. That would imply that Tamiya was releasing good kits and then stopped, which is what your above post states. You listed a number of releases that were considered the best at that time. The fact that you can't find them on the market shows they sold well. I'd say those were pretty smart subjects choices.

 

As to the second portion of your post, the sarcasm and hyperbole are a bit much. I don't know how much you know about Tamiya, but plastic airplanes (and models in general) are small fraction of their overall business. As I said before, they do what they do. You also contradicted yourself with the statement, "These guys are simply geniuses. Given their position as market leaders..." The sarcastic comment about being geniuses implies you don't think they know what they're doing, yet directly after that, you claim they are market leaders. So if they're so stupid, how can they be market leaders? That juxtaposition doesn't really work. It's got to be one or the other.

 

It would appear you are quite passionate about the hobby, and that's great. But it might be a good idea to dial it back a bit and relax. Claiming that Tamiya is doing "incalculable harm" to the hobby is a bit over the top, seeing as they have just released two of most outstanding model kits every produced in the 1/48 F-4 and F-35.

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