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Hi Everyone,
I have officially started my 1/72 Revell Space Shuttle build. Before I get into this first share, I wanted to make sure everyone understands my build as there are some detail decisions that I have made based on the build. This is a sentimental build for me as I designed a project that flew on the Discovery in 1985 (51G). So, this build will be on the Discovery on the ground at Edwards with all of the support vehicles and gear servicing the orbiter once landed.

 

I have purchased several 3D or Resin parts. One of which was the Cockpit from Up Draft. The quality of their parts is fantastic. My only issue with their cockpit kit is the the PhotoEtch had problems adhering  and painting at that microscopic level was problematic. (for those that have the kit, they recommend using a ultra fine tip permanent marker (as seen in their photos) which looks ok, but isnt representative of reality. I wanted to light the cockpit but their resin parts are solid and accurate drilling for fibre optics wasnt something that could have worked with the PE parts.

 

I have done the cockpit 3 times now.

 

The resin parts work great and are pretty accurate. I decided to 86 the Photo Etch parts. Then, I started looking at the seats. The PE parts were very flimsy at scale and trying to get them to stick was a problem. So, I decided to model my own in Fusion360. Several may ask why I bought parts if I can model them. Short answer is, if you dont model 3D parts at scale, its a LOT OF WORK to get them right. So, when makers have great parts I like to cut to the chase and save me some time. These seats however bothered me, so it was off to 360 to make some new ones. (I did leave the dash PE in place as it allowed me to use Future on the monitors to give them a glow).

 

Then I noticed the HUD that came in the kit (also PE) was not correct. So, I modeled that as well. Finally, the Pilot/CoPilot seats were missing the back control base that sits at the floor behind their seats. So, I made something (that vaguely resembled) the back control base and have those items printing now on my Form3 in Grey Resin.

 

In the end, I decided to use the decals on the Up Draft parts for some "better than I could get on PE" detail. Since my model will have runway and service vehicles, being spot on isnt necessary as it will barely be visible. So, the control surfaces having some detail was good enough for me. The Seats will be accurate with blue cushions and the black metal frame that the cushion is mounted on. (2 pieces) instead of 4 like the Updraft kit. Having these separate makes painting easier and allows for better adhesion because they are resin.

 

So, updates may be slow as I am trying a few things I haven't seen attempted here in the forums for the tiles and detailing. Bare with me and as I progress I will share more. 

 

Thanks!

 

Now that I think about it, I may model the entire cockpit so that the pieces are thin walled for drilling fibre optic holes for backlighting along with some cable management rings on the back and underside. While this wont be visible from my build, its always fun to include some lights and Homer did an amazing job with his. I did buy both a Monogram and Revell kit and any parts I make, I will make for both. The Monogram will just come later :) 

 

ShuttleSeats.png

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Hi Rittic,

 

Great start with this build.  I'm looking forward to what you come up with for the tiles.

 

Please post some pictures of the resin interior parts you are making.

 

What type of glue were you using on the PE parts?  Epoxy, CA and PVA glue(Canopy Glue) are all pretty good for attaching PE parts.  

 

Are your seats and parts you are making in 3D for the later look of the shuttles?

 

Michael.

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Yessirree ... this sounds like a most interesting model!

I'm glad you mentioned Homer because he's done a lot of work on the crew section and somebody else did the cabin ... it could save you time and just cost you some moolah.

The tiles will be fun to watch come to fruition, I've used a few materials to replicate 'em.

 

Re: the PE ... if they're not sticking, I have to ask, did you clean 'en first?

I had this issue too until I found out that they should be left in Vinegar for an hour or two to remove any oils ... then they stuck perfectly!

 

Post lotsa pix ... we won't criticize ... too much !   ;^ D

 

Pete

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Hey Pete, 
Thanks for the note. I will share more pics. I have the current cockpit almost done and now I am modeling a new one to see which I like best. My chairs turned out good, so once I get them painted and installed I will share a picture.

On the PE, I did clean them. I use alcohol not vinegar. I thought it was the plastic they used for the resin. Despite cleaning the resin parts, they had a hard time taking primer. Nothing stuck real well (I even light sanded for batter adhesion).

More soon!

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@CaptKirk & @crowe-t
Thanks for the replies. I just got the first set of seats off the printer last night. They are all cured up and ready to be cleaned, primed and painted. As soon as I get them installed I will share a shot or two. In parallel, I am re-modeling the entire cockpit to see if I can make something that will be easier to light and more accurate. Even on a Form3, the details at 1/72 are sometimes hard to replicate.

 

I was using CA glue for the resin and PE parts. I should have used epoxy. It's been removed now (which as you can imagine destroyed it) so, im rolling with the decals unless my interior model turns out better. 

 

Dave

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In order to clean the oils off of the PE, Alcohol won't work ... the Vinegar is a mild acid and from what I've read ... and tried ... it works.

I'll soak the PE sheets in Vinegar for a couple hours, no wiping, just rinse well and let air-dry.

 

The Resin needs to be cleaned too but just with Dish soap and water ... and an old toothbrush to get into the nooks and crannies, this'll clean off the release agents from the Resin's mold.

Working really small, like 1/72, creates enough frustrations, so PE and Resin that doesn't stick  is one irritant we don't need.

 

Let me get my popcorn ...  ;^ D

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Hey Pete,

Thanks for that. Ive always used Alcohol and had no idea about vinegar. So, next time I will try that and REALLY appreciate the tip. For the record the Updraft PE has great detail, but painting or their suggested Sharpie coloring is very difficult as things are compressed.

Resin, ive never had an issue with. Soap and warm water but for whatever reason, this 3D print resin that they used had adhesion issues for primer. The resin I use on the Form3 cleans up after the bake and primes real well. I've never had an issue with it.

 

Thanks for the tip! I really do appreciate it.

 

</Dave>

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Print #2 on the way to the Form3 now with the HUD's added. I had to make some slight adjustments to the seats, and then decided to add my HUD model to the mix. 8 Hours to go! so they will be ready to prime and pain this evening.


The HUD was based on: https://www.pinterest.at/pin/179721841353224907/

 

Attached are the Fusion360 and Preform models.

Screenshot at Mar 07 Shuttle Seats (print 2).png

1868028425_ScreenshotatMar07Fusion360.png

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On 3/6/2023 at 3:38 PM, Rittic said:

On the PE, I did clean them. I use alcohol not vinegar

A thing I do with PE, be it good, bad, or indifferent, is to lay the sheet flat and lightly sand it with a sandpaper scrap I no longer know the grit number for but is so fine it feels like notebook paper.

Yes it leaves streaks which catch the light, but they do not show in the paint.

And, yes, it doesn't get down to any recessed detail.

 

 

IMG_5273_42.jpg

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I just found this and thought I would share with everyone. a 1/12 scale model. Its pretty incredible. Its a shame that some of the colors (like the control panels) are incorrect. So much amazing detail, and then to get some of the colors wrong. Either way, I was impressed.
 

http://scalemodelingdomain.blogspot.com/2015/01/112th-scale-space-shuttle-cockpit.html?spref=pi

Edited by Rittic
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2 hours ago, Rittic said:

Its a shame that some of the colors (like the control panels) are incorrect.

Or are they? 🤔


Is their dark grey underexposed so as the white remainder of model is not washed out and overexposed?

Much like when trying to photograph Kansas City Southern locomotives in the 1970s and 80s without either overexposing their white bodies or underexposing their black everything else from the walkways down.

 

🚀 ▶️ And then there's the thing of: which shuttle's cockpit after which upgrade/rework in which year on which mission?

 

▶️ And then there's the thing of: since the model is going to be a museum display was there an artistic decision to make things higher contrast for better viewing and visibility?


Here are 2 images of the real Endeavour for comparison, 

 

1 in a Flickr album of a well known modeler, blogger, and civilian space employee,

Space Shuttle Endeavour's Control Panels

 

 

And 2, by NBC news, https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna47394680

 

Quote

A last look at a fully lit space shuttle. NASA shut down space shuttle Endeavour for the final time on May 11, 2012, but not before giving collectSPACE.com the chance to photograph the retired spacecraft's powered-on flight deck. collectSPACE.com/Robert Pearlman
May 11, 2012, 11:52 PM UTC / Source: Space.com
By By Robert Z. Pearlman

 

And, the model builder isn't exactly new to NASA,

https://www.columbian.com/news/2011/jul/08/all-systems-go-for-space-shuttle-toilet-replica/?print


 

Quote

 

All systems go for space shuttle toilet replica

Vancouver firm fulfills strange museum order

By Tom Vogt, Columbian Science, Military & History Reporter

Published: July 8, 2011, 5:00pm

OK, let’s just get it out of the way and then move on. The latest museum piece from John Geigle’s fabrication shop is a tribute to those who boldly go where no man has gone before.

It’s a space toilet.

To be more precise, it’s a replica of a toilet on a NASA space shuttle. Geigle’s team at Masterpiece Models built the shuttle fixture for a repeat customer, the Kansas Cosmosphere and Space Center.

A few years ago, the shop just east of Hazel Dell built a full-scale replica of a Mars rover for the museum.

 

 

Edited by southwestforests
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@southwestforests
Ya know, I misspoke and didn't do my homework. Since I am SO focused on the Discovery, it didn't occur to me that the control surface colors may be different from Shuttle to Shuttle.

The articles and write up for this model are amazing and youre right when you said, "not new to NASA." thanks for the thoughtful reply. I found this and was egar to share as the detail was nothing shy of amazing. I should have taken a hot second to validate my thought.

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After 2 print tries, I have finalized the seats and HUD models. Everything is done and has been tested for scale and fit. This is the final model. Only a few supports were needed. This makes removal of the parts very easy. Im pretty happy with how this all turned out. Photos of the finished items soon. 

Screenshot at Mar 08 09-24-14.png

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hey Rittic, great work on your seats!

 

I had tried to make the seats in my flight deck look more accurate, with the metal frame and the rods supporting the headrest, but they were way too thin for Shapeways to print in fine detail plastic.

 

So my seats, unlike yours, are blocky and obviously not accurate.  But, as I found out once I sealed up my build, if you are building the flight deck in launch configuration with astronauts occupying all of the seats, you can't see any seat detail from any of the external windows, including the overhead ones.

 

50281605913_5d7f9b6c2f_k.jpg

 

I'll be very interested to see what your Form 3 can do with details that tiny.  It would speak volumes if the print quality of the Form 3 outperforms that of the material jetting printing technology that Shapeways uses for fine detail plastic.

 

 

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Hey @Homer your work on the Monogram cockpit inspired me! Ive been working on re-creating it for the Revell kit as I wasnt happy with the stock kit and the one I purchased I didn't like the PE parts. So, it's now a Fusion360 adventure. Not sure how you did this, Matching the geometry inside is HARD.

 

here is where I am presently with the seats, cockpit and heads up display.

 

The seats are two pieces (aids in painting) the black frame and the cushion. The cockpit is a base with the front control panels on the left and right + the front dash. The remaining panels are separate pieces.

 

 

IMG_3048.jpg

IMG_3047.jpg

IMG_3023.jpg

IMG_3022.jpg

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Those parts look great!  How thin are the HUD frames and the seat frames?  Shapeways limits the minimum width of unsupported wires (i.e. the frames) to 0.8 mm and supported wires to 0.6 mm.

 

https://www.shapeways.com/materials/fine-detail-plastic-3

 

Re: geometry matching, here’s how I did it: I got lucky, very lucky.

 

http://orbit.medphys.ucl.ac.uk

 

I downloaded Orbiter and looked at the game’s assets, which were fortunately stored as separate files and not compressed into one big data file.  The flight deck model was actually still a Blender file, in fact.  I extracted those geometries and used them as guides to draw printable 3D shapes.  Since the screens, buttons, and lighted switches are texture maps, I used Illustrator to trace the texture maps, saving it as a .svg file and importing that into Blender, providing a guide to where I needed to create holes for the lighting to shine through.

 

Let me know if you find this approach helpful to you.  I’d be happy to send you the Orbiter flight deck model (it’s open source) if you have trouble extracting that asset yourself.

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Hey @Homer

Thanks! these parts min extrusion is .25. So the reinforcement bars on the seats are .25 as are the head rests. The seat frames vary. The HUD's are .25 as well. It's hard to see but there are small nibs in the back on the inside of the HUD frame and a small slot in the back for the clear plastic to rest so it's at the right angle.

 

Im hoping my 4th print will fit in the model. I have one hot point and trimming the geometry to the downward facing slope is the hard part. If this doesn't work I have one more thing to try. Then, I may take you up on that and really appreciate the offer. My goal was to make a solid version for painting and then a version with holes for  a back light or fiber optics. I personally am not going to light mine as it will be depicted sitting on the runway at Edwards with the support vehicles. So, the lights won't be the focus or add to the display. (or thats my original thought). 

 

At some point you need to tell me how you event thought to get the geometry that way. Absolutely brilliant and it clearly worked well. I'll go check out the link! thanks for sharing it and the how.

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On 3/28/2023 at 6:52 PM, Rittic said:

there are small nibs in the back on the inside of the HUD frame and a small slot in the back for the clear plastic to rest so it's at the right angle

A thoughtful design touch.
Were I building a model with a HUD that would be nice to find in the part.

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