dai phan Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 (edited) Hi all, 80-early 90's were the hey day of US model companies. Nowadays we see kits produced from Japan, China, Russia and EU countries. US manufacturers AWOL all together. What gives? It seems there is demand but US just mum ??? Dai Edited March 22, 2023 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Probably costs. A lot of new companies are out of China, where costs are cheaper. Even a number of non-Chinese model companies actually have their kits made in China. The one of the remaining US companies (Revell - which merged with the other big U.S. company years ago) may have been impacted by the Hobbico breakup, and now mostly makes cars and reboxes of old Monogram kits or Revell Germany kits. Other US companies like Moebius and Round 2 do a lot of sci-fi kits, but again most of the kits are actually made in China. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted March 22, 2023 Author Share Posted March 22, 2023 Yes China is where the parts are made but I wish US companies would design the kits. I cannot recall a US based model company (parts made in China) on any of the airplane kits I build recently except oldies. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 2 hours ago, dai phan said: Nowadays we see kits produced from Japan, China, Russia and EU countries. US manufacturers AWOL all together. What gives? The following gives: While specifically about molding styrene plastic model train parts it also applies to molding plastic model kits. "... 4:07 I'm sitting here with Miss Wong you 4:10 remember her from our last video in 4:11 China and every time we put a video of 4:14 our factory on to YouTube 4:17 we got the usual complaints bring these 4:18 jobs back to America these should be 4:20 made in America Canada Yaya some people 4:23 want to make anywhere but China well I'm 4:24 gonna address that right now okay this 4:27 industry of model railroading was super 4:29 detailed model trains was built over the 4:31 last thirty years in the city of boom 4:34 Wan in China the vast majority of the 4:36 world super detail mall trains come from 4:39 this city why this is where the global 4:41 expertise is now Miss Wong she works as 4:44 our production supervisor now this is 4:45 her second model training Factory she's 4:47 been working in model train since she 4:48 was a teenager and she's very very 4:50 experienced she knows what to do ... " Quote Link to post Share on other sites
habu2 Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 Money. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Smith Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 From what I’ve been reading, not just the money, but model building in the states is not nearly as popular as other countries. Why manufacture here just to export the majority of your inventory? I remember being a kid in the late ‘60’s-‘70’s building models. All my friends built models at some time as a hobby. It’s all about video games now. I tried to get my kids hooked when they were younger. Each built a model, but the bug didn’t bite. Well, maybe. Not the oldest, he’s a video gamer. But my youngest, now 27 is building RC rock crawlers and other trucks. He’s not just assembling, but buying custom printed bodies and other aftermarket bodies and cutting them up and modifying them. His latest is modifying a 1/10 Blazer into a full on pickup truck. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John Tapsell Posted March 22, 2023 Share Posted March 22, 2023 (edited) Over the last 20-30 years, China in particular has benefited from a massive increase in western-style economic expansion. That's created a huge volume of people with disposable income and therefore a massive increase in the appetite for 'luxury' (non-essential) consumer goods. Models fall into that category. To service that market, a lot of new Chinese model manufacturers have appeared. The brutal reality is that the asian hobby markets are far larger and more lucrative than established western markets. Traditional first generation manufacturers like Revell and Mongram (and Airfix and others) didn't have the flexibility that start-ups have. They have had to change their whole business model towards the lean/agile ethos in order to compete with the new guys and some of them have failed to change successfully. Labour and manufacturing is also cheaper in Asia - it's the same for virtually any consumer item. It's no coincidence that Apple outsource much of their manufacturing to China for example. In short, it's about economics - straightforward commercial decision-making and natural selection of the fittest, smartest beasts in the habitat. The old and the lame rarely make the cut. On a more positive note, the new Airfix 1/24 Spitfire has been produced in the UK - all their previous new products (for the past 10 years at least) have been manufactured in India or China. Suddenly, Airfix believe that UK manufacturing is a competitive option and they have committed significant resources to bring that capability back to the UK. The balance of costs might be shifting again as the wider global situation changes. Edited March 22, 2023 by John Tapsell Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 1 hour ago, John Tapsell said: Over the last 20-30 years, China in particular has benefited from a massive increase in western-style economic expansion. That's created a huge volume of people with disposable income and therefore a massive increase in the appetite for 'luxury' (non-essential) consumer goods. Models fall into that category. To service that market, a lot of new Chinese model manufacturers have appeared. The brutal reality is that the asian hobby markets are far larger and more lucrative than established western markets. Traditional first generation manufacturers like Revell and Mongram (and Airfix and others) didn't have the flexibility that start-ups have. They have had to change their whole business model towards the lean/agile ethos in order to compete with the new guys and some of them have failed to change successfully. Labour and manufacturing is also cheaper in Asia - it's the same for virtually any consumer item. It's no coincidence that Apple outsource much of their manufacturing to China for example. In short, it's about economics - straightforward commercial decision-making and natural selection of the fittest, smartest beasts in the habitat. The old and the lame rarely make the cut. On a more positive note, the new Airfix 1/24 Spitfire has been produced in the UK - all their previous new products (for the past 10 years at least) have been manufactured in India or China. Suddenly, Airfix believe that UK manufacturing is a competitive option and they have committed significant resources to bring that capability back to the UK. The balance of costs might be shifting again as the wider global situation changes. Thank you John your comment. Sad that US companies just ignore this market due to economy reasons and let China, Russia, EU... thrive. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Scott Smith said: From what I’ve been reading, not just the money, but model building in the states is not nearly as popular as other countries. Why manufacture here just to export the majority of your inventory? I remember being a kid in the late ‘60’s-‘70’s building models. All my friends built models at some time as a hobby. It’s all about video games now. I tried to get my kids hooked when they were younger. Each built a model, but the bug didn’t bite. Well, maybe. Not the oldest, he’s a video gamer. But my youngest, now 27 is building RC rock crawlers and other trucks. He’s not just assembling, but buying custom printed bodies and other aftermarket bodies and cutting them up and modifying them. His latest is modifying a 1/10 Blazer into a full on pickup truck. US could easily design the toolings, have the parts made in China and sell where people buy. Tne fact that Japanese, Chinese, Russian and EU countries keep putting out kits meaning there is as a demand. In the US hey days of the 80s,90's did you ever hear about Russian or Chinese kits? Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 In the 70s, 80's and early 90's, Monogram was the undisputed King. Realizing Tamiya and Hasagawa creeping up the ladder, M responded with the Pro Modeler series that are still of today's standard. Imagine what M could do today with the technologies. I still marvel at M' kits even with 40 years old tooling. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 (edited) Sometimes I still build Monogram's oldies just to relive the hey day of US companies. Dai Edited March 23, 2023 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 24 minutes ago, dai phan said: In the 70s, 80's and early 90's, Monogram was the undisputed King. Realizing Tamiya and Hasagawa creeping up the ladder, M responded with the Pro Modeler series that are still of today's standard. Imagine what M could do today with the technologies. I still marvel at M' kits even with 40 years old tooling. Dai Other than the reboxes of Hasegawa kits, most of the Promodeler kits weren’t that impressive. Throwing in a little PE and better instructions with pictures from Detail and Scale and new decals (Scalemaster, I think) didn’t really improve the old kits that much. Except for the P-51B, they were still the old raised panel line kits. And the P-51B didn’t work out that well since converting the raised panel line mold to recessed panel lines was expensive and slightly shrunk the size. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 16 minutes ago, dai phan said: Hi all, Looks like many companies are joining in the feeding frenzy of the Tamiya's kit so I ordered the Kelik (Ukraine)3D cockpit set. It seems to have the correct dark gull gray and the details are more raised and defined. Will keep you informed. Dai Was this supposed to be in a Tamiya F-4B thread? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
karl h Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 For the EU there is hope, just look at ICM Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ElectroSoldier Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Local production costs are much lower in China than in the USA. So a company can have something made in China then ship it to and sell it in the USA and get more money for it than if it were made in the USA. Its all about the money and who ends up with more of it once something is sold. The love of money is why. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Smith Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 These are still made in the USA. https://atlantis-models.com/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 14 hours ago, John Tapsell said: In short, it's about economics - straightforward commercial decision-making and natural selection of the fittest, smartest beasts in the habitat. The old and the lame rarely make the cut. On a more positive note, the new Airfix 1/24 Spitfire has been produced in the UK - all their previous new products (for the past 10 years at least) have been manufactured in India or China. Truth. I worked in retail long enough and had enough contact with manufacturers and distributors to understand that the smart and the fit are the most likely to survive although no matter who you are you will remain somewhat at the mercy of the whims of the consuming public. Just received via Squadron a box of Airfix's classic RAF personnel figures which indeed was manufactured in India. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
southwestforests Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Manufacturers sometimes invent markets and more usually respond to markets. Markets are affected by societal conditions. ➡️ So, what effect on the plastic model market and then the manufacturers here in the US did the following have? And did it have a long term impact? Is it still having an impact? Quote Model Airplanes are Decadent and Depraved tells the story of the American glue-sniffing epidemic of the 1960s, from the first reports of use to the unsuccessful crusade for federal legislation in the early 1970s. ISBN: 9780875807249 Author: Thomas Aiello Publisher: Northern Illinois University Press Binding: Paperback Publication Date: June 15, 2015 ... Quote Though the hobby industry began putting an irritant in its model glue products in 1969 to make them less desirable to sniff, that wasn't what stopped the epidemic. Just as quickly as it erupted, the epidemic stopped when the media coverage and public hysteria stopped, making it one of the most unique epidemics in American history. No kiddin? The hysteria stopped when the media stopped? Who could have ever imagined that kind of thing was even possible? Now the question is, what effect on the market for the hobby did that hysteria have in this society? Has it been a long term effect? Has that effect been detrimental to plastic model manufacturers? A connected question is, is it ever possible for a hysteria to continue having an impact on a market, on a hobby, after the reality of the foundation for that hysteria is gone? https://www.semcoop.com/model-airplanes-are-decadent-and-depraved-glue-sniffing-epidemic-1960s Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mr.Happy Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Agreed with the short answer MONEY. There are many other reasons why we (The U.S.) hasn’t had much luck , interest, or initiative with bringing manufacturers back to our shores. Some Short Quick Answes: We have lost our skills based work force over the decades since the 1980’s early 90’s. Sadly we would really need a good 10 years of hard nose to grind stone schooling to regain some of our manufacturing skills and strength. China, Macau, Philippines, Vietnam, Cambodia, India, Bangladeshi, etc provide cheep labor. With a free market society there is less cost, less quality control standards, little concern for EPA or OSHA type of oversight / regulation. So unfortunately it’s a win win for many companies that migrated overseas and their bottom line. If we were to bring back many U.S. (Which we desperately need to do) manufacturers Our current work force would demand such a high wage that it would make the widget or plastic model so expensive that it would be pointless. We as a country need to make some many hard choices should we want to continue to stay competitive and continue with our growth, prosperity, and strength. The takeaway is, Money is the motivator and also unfortunately politics are a plateau that hinder bringing many business back to the U.S. Side notes: Another interesting and very scary thought here is that over 90% of the U.S. pharmaceuticals are manufactured in China. China has been now experiencing labor problems of its own and have now have been moving their manufacturing to Mexico.( Hecha in China) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Williams Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Scott Smith said: These are still made in the USA. https://atlantis-models.com/ True, but all they are doing is squirting plastic into molds that were made decades ago by other companies. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Scott Smith Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Just off the top of my head I can think of two great products that were manufactured in North America and have now gone the lower cost route getting products made in China now just to improve the bottom line. I paid a premium because I didn’t want the standard quality I could buy anywhere that was made over seas. One was a beach chair that touted higher quality with much heavier tubing for us fat guys. It was great. Went to replace it 6 or 7 years later and now they were being sold in Walmart under the same name but much thinner tubing and much lower quality Second was my Made in Canada Tilley hats. Now made in China just like all the other Panama Jack, etc. hats. I’ll never buy another especially since they are still charging the $80 and up prices of the original made in Canada hats. Don’t get me wrong, I buy made in China, Malaysia, Taiwan, Mexico, etc all the time. I just don’t like the bait and switch some companies pull. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 Labor costs. Period Dot Dot Dot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
82Whitey51 Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 18 hours ago, Scott Smith said: From what I’ve been reading, not just the money, but model building in the states is not nearly as popular as other countries. Why manufacture here just to export the majority of your inventory? I don't think interest in model building in the U.S. is that big a factor. If a U.S. company could make a nice model kit (cheaply) they'd export the crap out of them just like China, Japan, Ukraine, etc does. Bottom line, the price of doing business is too damn expensive here...no matter what you're making. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WymanV Posted March 23, 2023 Share Posted March 23, 2023 18 hours ago, Dave Williams said: Other than the reboxes of Hasegawa kits, most of the Promodeler kits weren’t that impressive. The new tooled Helldiver was a Pro Modeler offering. And wasn't the ME-410 as well? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted March 23, 2023 Author Share Posted March 23, 2023 9 minutes ago, WymanV said: The new tooled Helldiver was a Pro Modeler offering. And wasn't the ME-410 as well? Yes and they are impressive for the 90's standard. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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