Harrier / AV8B vs F35

[Delanie]

Hi, I was browsing Youtube yesterday and stumbled on an article regarding the F35B (the Stovl version sorry i always get the A/B/C models mixed up) in the video they showed the F35 landing and suggested that it was more stable in  the hover/landing than the AV8 is this true? 

 

If this is the case I'm thinking that this may be due to the flyby wire controls? 

 

I'd be interested in comments

 

 

[eraucubsfan]

From what I have been told by folks in the F-35 program, yes the F-35 is more stable because the "computer" "flies" the aircraft

[Scott Smith]

How old is the Harrier design?  I would imagine anything designed and built today must be light years ahead in technology.   The Harrier was probably designed using models and wind tunnels while the F-35B was done with modern CAD, AI, computer simulations, etc….

[habu2]

The Hawker P.1127 (VTOL prototype) first flew in 1960.  I worked on the McDD AV-8B program in the early 80s.  Many hours in the sim at Cherry Point, vertical landing was a full hands-on manual task.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawker_Siddeley_P.1127

[ElectroSoldier]

On 4/3/2023 at 8:07 PM, eraucubsfan said:

From what I have been told by folks in the F-35 program, yes the F-35 is more stable because the "computer" "flies" the aircraft

Is that why the pre delivery aircraft crashed a few weeks ago?

[Scott Smith]

41 minutes ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Is that why the pre delivery aircraft crashed a few weeks ago?

“Please wait while Windows reboots”

[habu2]

1 hour ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Is that why the pre delivery aircraft crashed a few weeks ago?

 

No. The swivel nozzle is "powered" by pressurized fuel lines, one of the lines broke/leaked resulting in unbalanced fore/aft thrust.

 

.

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by habu2

[ElectroSoldier]

1 hour ago, habu2 said:

 

No. The swivel nozzle is "powered" by pressurized fuel lines, one of the lines broke/leaked resulting in unbalanced fore/aft thrust.

 

.

 

Quality control problems on the production line?

[habu2]

Quote

 

From an extensive thread on f-16.net:

 

A source familiar with the program told Defense News the investigation into the Dec. 15 mishap found that a tube used to transfer high-pressure fuel in the fighter’s F135 engine, made by Pratt & Whitney, had failed. 

 

https://www.f-16.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=58979&start=165

[habu2]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JMNWQQfMM8

[habu2]

From https://www.defensenews.com/air/2023/02/10/fix-coming-for-f-35-engine-problem-that-froze-fighters-deliveries/

 

"After thorough review, we can confidently say there were no quality issues with the [engine] fuel tube that fractured,” said Jen Latka, vice president of the F135 program for Pratt & Whitney. “We are dealing with a rare systems phenomenon involving harmonic resonance."

[Da SWO]

6 hours ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Quality control problems on the production line?

No, engineering change due to unknown issue.

[ElectroSoldier]

Engineering problems then?

[habu2]

No.

 

If you want to learn about the problem, and the solution, read the entire thread on f-16.net, there are some very in depth and  knowledgeable posts by "those in the know" about the problem. Please stop trying to blame the problem on engineering or production.

[lockheed2004]

Somewhere a bridge is missing it’s troll

[ElectroSoldier]

9 hours ago, habu2 said:

No.

 

If you want to learn about the problem, and the solution, read the entire thread on f-16.net, there are some very in depth and  knowledgeable posts by "those in the know" about the problem. Please stop trying to blame the problem on engineering or production.

Im not trying to blame anybody I asked you what it was thats all.

Going by the answer above its something that can happen but its rare.

[ElectroSoldier]

Having read a little of that thread Habu2 I will just say I can see why now you are so touchy on the subject and Ill let sleepy dogs lay.

Especially as you might end up finding out your sleepy dog has rather more problems than at first sight appears.

Or might not, depending on how much money youre making out of it.

Edited April 11, 2023 by ElectroSoldier

[Ken Cartwright]

1 hour ago, ElectroSoldier said:

Having read a little of that thread Habu2 I will just say I can see why now you are so touchy on the subject and Ill let sleepy dogs lay.

Especially as you might end up finding out your sleepy dog has rather more problems than at first sight appears.

Or might not, depending on how much money youre making out of it.

Regardless of whatever Habu's involvement may be with the F-35, you seem invested in criticizing it for some reason.  As I recall, you once posted that a company said they were able to track it, but in researching it I found that the company in question was trying to sell their tracking equipment, and the F-35s in question were flying in a configuration where they could be tracked, so it was pretty meaningless.

 

As far as whether the F-35 is worth the investment, the United Kingdom, the United States, Italy, The Netherlands, Australia, Norway, Israel, Japan, the Republic of Korea, Denmark, Singapore, Belgium, and Poland all seem to think so, so either they're all wrong and you're right, or...

[habu2]

I have no involvement with the F-35.  I did work on systems integration and flight test on AA-1 through flight 18 or 19 (Slim's first - and almost last - flight) but left the program shortly after that (mid 2007).  I was primarily responsible for the Honeywell PTMS-C system, not the engine or flight controls.  Now I am just an aviation fan interested in all planes, not just the F-35.

[kellyF15]

From what I've seen up close here, you could sit on top and eat a bowl of soup without spilling it while its hovering

[ElectroSoldier]

On 4/11/2023 at 3:58 PM, Ken Cartwright said:

Regardless of whatever Habu's involvement may be with the F-35, you seem invested in criticizing it for some reason.  As I recall, you once posted that a company said they were able to track it, but in researching it I found that the company in question was trying to sell their tracking equipment, and the F-35s in question were flying in a configuration where they could be tracked, so it was pretty meaningless.

 

As far as whether the F-35 is worth the investment, the United Kingdom, the United States, Italy, The Netherlands, Australia, Norway, Israel, Japan, the Republic of Korea, Denmark, Singapore, Belgium, and Poland all seem to think so, so either they're all wrong and you're right, or...

I asked if that accident was due to quality control problems.

 

I asked if you guys thought it was possible that the S-400 missile system can track the F-35 as there is some discussion about it on the internet.

 

You seem now to be making things up about what I say/think about it.

The F-35 has had some problems, or many problems in the past but that doesnt mean its a bad investment.

[eraucubsfan]

14 hours ago, kellyF15 said:

From what I've seen up close here, you could sit on top and eat a bowl of soup without spilling it while its hovering

yeah, but you'd be deaf lol.  

 

 

[kellyF15]

5 hours ago, eraucubsfan said:

yeah, but you'd be deaf lol.  

 

 

24 years of fighter maintenance, I think I'm already there LOL