AMMO MiG-17F in 48th scale

[ya-gabor]

A bit more details about the kit, the price, the release, things inside the box . . .

 

 

https://www.migjimenez.com/en/preorder/9590-148-mig-17flim-5-ussr-gdr-premium-edition-8432074085126.html

 

 

In short:

 

The basic kit includes:

• Photoetch parts.
• Detailed afterburner interior.
• Detailed undercarriage and landing gear.
• Positionable flaps and ailerons.
• Positionable air brakes.
• External Fuel Tanks.

 

The Premium Special Edition also includes:

• Canopy masks by Ginger Cat.
• Red Fox Studio 3D instrument panels.
• 3D resin printed resin set consisting of an ejector seat, two rocket launchers with pylons, a ladder, and a pilot's helmet.

 

Release is due at the end of July

Price is 55Euro for the pre-order and 60 normal price

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

Edited April 28 by ya-gabor

[ya-gabor]

Some more detailed views of the kit parts.

 

 

 

 

There are two versions of the equipment bay cover in front of the cockpit.

 

 

The external fuel tank is the metal version which with AMMO has the right external weld lines and they got the geometry of the fuel filler cup area right. Also something you don’t usually see on kits are the drains on the underside of the tank.

 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

Edited April 28 by ya-gabor

[Bsin]

2 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

Some more detailed views of the kit parts.

 

 

 

 

There are two versions of the equipment bay cover in front of the cockpit.

 

 

The external fuel tank is the metal version which with AMMO has the right external weld lines and they got the geometry of the fuel filler cup area right. Also something you don’t usually see on kits are the drains on the underside of the tank.

 

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

Thank you, Gabor.

[Buckmeister]

Yikes!  Shipping to the USA on two kits is almost 55€!  That knocks it out of my league.

[ya-gabor]

There was one thing strange on the AMMO MiG-17F kit. Both on top and bottom of the wing there is a strange V shaped surface indentation where the outer wing aerofoil meets with that of the inner wing part between the first (inner one) and second wing fences. Yes, it looks strange and one has to look closer at a real MiG-17 for this detail.

Well the V “indentation” or whatever one calls it is there on the real aircraft. How visible it is? At least on the bottom of the wing very much so. Here is a MiG-17 somewhere in the world used as a monument. It shows best the area in question.

 

 

 

 

A view of the decal options for the first four versions of the kit. The two on the bottom will be in the first release this summer.

 

 

As shown at Moson the extra parts proposed for the Special Limited Edition. I am “not sure” about period authenticity of the ZS-5 pilots helmet together with KM-34 oxygen mask. Both of them are more appropriate for say a MiG-21 all the way to MiG-29 or Su-27. It is possible that in the past few decades somewhere in the world this helmet version was used someone flying in a retro MiG-17, but in the 1950’s and 60’s it is highly unlikely since both of them simply did not exist back then! It is like expecting to have an IPhone in the hand of someone in say 1966 (or even 1996)!

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

A different view of the “extras” from the AMMO page.  There are some differences and changes in comparison to what was shown a week ago at Moson.

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[Bsin]

20 hours ago, Buckmeister said:

Yikes!  Shipping to the USA on two kits is almost 55€!  That knocks it out of my league.

I guess we will have to wait until it hits the states to buy.

[dai phan]

On 4/29/2023 at 2:36 PM, Bsin said:

I guess we will have to wait until it hits the states to buy.

Me too. Shipping is too expensive to the USA. Dai 

[Floggerman]

On 4/29/2023 at 9:57 AM, ya-gabor said:

 

 

As shown at Moson the extra parts proposed for the Special Limited Edition. I am “not sure” about period authenticity of the ZS-5 pilots helmet together with KM-34 oxygen mask. Both of them are more appropriate for say a MiG-21 all the way to MiG-29 or Su-27. It is possible that in the past few decades somewhere in the world this helmet version was used someone flying in a retro MiG-17, but in the 1950’s and 60’s it is highly unlikely since both of them simply did not exist back then! It is like expecting to have an IPhone in the hand of someone in say 1966 (or even 1996)!

 

 

All MiG-17s that flew in the GDR in the late 1970s/early 1980s were flown only with leather caps, although the helmets existed of course and were used on the other types. A pilot told me at the time, when I asked about this, that the cabin was simply too narrow, especially for taller pilots. At least it was uncomfortable.

Edited May 7 by Floggerman

[ya-gabor]

Yes, unquestionably. Same here, the headroom in the cockpit was lets say “tight”. One could adjust the seat height but only a minimal distance. Even in the MiG-19 it was not easy and for example the top ejection seat firing handle often had a textile wrapped around it so it will not scratch/nock against the canopy.  

 

Why did AMMO decide on this? Who knows but there could be several reasons for this:

1. Someone, somewhere had one of this helmets and they scanned it.

2. The 3D printer company persuaded them to have this helmet

3. After all it is a Soviet helmet, and who cares if it historically correct or not

. . .

 

Here are some well-known images from the Vietnam War era with what the pilots were wearing at the time.

 

 

 

 

Well after all Airfix also illustrated on its box top the Vietnamese pilot in the MiG-17 in a Hard Shell helmet. : )   : )   : )  Idiots!

 

 

Actually from all those extra parts the boarding ladder is also wrong, but who will notice.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

There have been some questions about that surface break on the MiG-17 wings going at 45 degrees from the end of the inner wing face outboard towards the front tip of the second wing fence. About the underside there is little question based on the previously shown photo. But what about the top surface of the wing??? Had a look for some photos on the net. Standing next to the aircraft it would be difficult to see it but from a distance, inflight photos of the wing top can be helpful.  

 

Based on these I can say that the break is there on the top surface also, but it shows only under certain light conditions. But it is there in my opinion!

 

Have a look

 

 

 

 

 

Here it is on the underside:

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[The Dude]

Very nice! I'm in for 2 or 3!  

[Laurent]

17 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

But it is there in my opinion!

It's a fact not an opinion and you've illustrated that.

 

2 hours ago, The Dude said:

Very nice! I'm in for 2 or 3!  

One or two for me... more if PF and/or PFU versions come around. I love the (in)aesthetics feature brought by the addition of the twin-antennas radar. For the same reason I prefer the MiG-19P/PM over the MiG-19S.

Edited May 28 by Laurent

[ya-gabor]

Some are not convinced even by photos!      Oh well!

 

Best regards

Gabor

[Buckmeister]

11 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

Some are not convinced even by photos!      Oh well!

 

We live in a fact-averse world in 2023.  Inconvenient things like scientific facts, proven by sometimes hundreds of years of scientific research, are irrelevant to a huge percentage of the population of our planet.  It will be our downfall.

[ya-gabor]

This is very first aftermarket which is officially announced today. It is the LööK from the Czech company and includes the instrument panel and a small painted photoetch with the straps for the “Curtain” ejection seat in late model MiG-17F fighters.

 

The strap photoetch is missing the lock and the attached connection to the timer / automatic release. It is fascinating that the now missing parts were included in the earlier similar MiG-15 sets, it is a mystery why they are left out now. The additional stomach padding panels (Part 6) are of the wrong shape.

 

 

The company did announce few weeks back that there are various other sets on the way to complement the AMMO kit.   

 

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

For those still interested in the brand new 48th scale MiG-17F kit from AMMO here are few more views of the sprues and the details of parts.

 

The big airbreak of the late version MiG-17 with the afterburner engine.

 

 

The nose gear leg. The “biggish” plastic block to the right is the way the leg slides into the bay interior part.

 

 

Some details of the cockpit, the instrument panel and the detailed side walls.

 

 

 

 

 

More soon.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

The usual review of a photoetch sets is to simply show the fret on its own or some details of it, but that’s about it. Where the photoetch brass sets end up? Mostly in the stash for a “future project”. But let’s have a look in a different way and see what they look like when actually put together.

 

 

Start with the instrument panel. The photoetch sheet has pre-painted parts. There is the front of it (Part 1) with all the instruments dials cut-out and of course the backing panel (Part 2) with the actuall instrument details on it. The difference this time is that the instrument faces have a drop of gloss varnish on them making the panel more realistic. This wasn’t so in the past.

 

 

There is a small manufacturing mistake where accidentally the designer misplaced a half etched area on the reverse side of the backing panel (Part 2). It should have been on the front and providing a more positive location for Part 37 which is the lever for Gear Down-Up on the left of the panel. Oh well  . . . things happen.

The lever still can be placed all right without any problem since there is a hole for it in the front panel.  

 

 

The only thing I did as an extra is to overpaint some of the main “black” panel parts with dark grey to cover the raster like colour made out of small dots of different paints. But this is the technology of the pre-painted etched parts so we have to live with it. To cover it all up a layer of dull matt varnish was sprayed on to highlight the glossy instrument faces against the matt panel. On real life aircraft it was that special black paint which after painting went into an oven and it wrinkled producing a nice matt surface.

 

 

Just to have  a feel for the size of it all.

 

 

And this is where it all will eventually end up on the AMMO kit.

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

The instrument panel was the easy part of photoetch construction. Just position one part over the other and glue them together. Nothing special.

Next step little bit more complex with some bending of the etched parts. The flaps are included in the set. What concerns its looks, it is a fairly complex part on its own (also on the real aircraft) and in my opinion adds a lot to the overall looks of the kit. It was obvious from the images of the kit that AMMO decided to go with open flaps. Wise choice as very often both the flaps and the huge air brakes were in open position when the aircraft was on ground.  

 

 

The extra work I did was to paint the parts, in a way. Actually it was a chemical painting to give the interior a very dark metallic colour. Don’t like the bright brass surface peeking out from the holes of the flaps.  Did it all before bending and gluing so that a clean gluing surface is provided, by this I mean not “paint is glued to paint” but rather metal to metal (even if chemically treated metal). The paint to paint can simply peel off with even minimal stress.

 

Also chemical pre-painting reduces the additional layers of paint on the surface, keeping the original crisp appearance of a finely designed photoetch parts.  

It is nothing extra but drilled the nice row of holes on the underside with 0.2mil bits. The set part provides them only as half etched holes.

 

Before bending the fold lines I added a very subtle surface break in accordance with the bend on the wing mentioned earlier. It complicates later construction a little but the flap will be more authentic in my opinion with the bend.

 

 

 

 

One piece of advice or rather a question: what is more important to you???

There is a little mix up by the designer of the parts. They obviously copied the surface details from the plastic partsperfectly. And here I mean the surface details on the outside surface of the flap. Comparison photo of the plastic part with the etching shows it well! There are rivets, a line at the trailing edge. Each flap is provided as one part etching (back and inside). The way Parts 67 & 68 (left and right flap) are designed is to bend almost 180 degrees along the axis of two attachment “rollers” the outer and the inner part of the flap. If you do this the exact copy of the surface riveting will end up on the inner surface!  

 

Now the question I mentioned earlier is: what is more important for the modeller, to have the riveting on the outside surface (bottom of the aircraft like on the kit), so he can muck around with some weathering to bring them out??? In this case he will have to do a cross mix of part, take the outer surface from the left flap and add it to the inner detailed part of the right flap. And the other way around for the opposite side. This way he will end up with nice rivets and lines just as on the kit part.

 

Or the modeller does not care about those rivet details on the outside and constructs the flap as it is in the set. This is what is illustrated in the instruction sheet. In this case the rivets will be on the inside. Part of them will not be seen I have to add since the detailed inside part will cover them over when glued together.  

One more thing if you do the construction as it is indicated on the instruction sheet then the row of venting holes will turn up on the inside of the flap and will not be visible on the outside where they should be in the first place! So drilling them is an advantage here!!!

 

This is where there was a little mix up by the designer, while he copied perfectly the kit details, did not realize that it will be on the inside of the photoetch construction. The solution would have been very simple, do the half etched rivet details on the reverse side of the etching but only for the outer flap surface.

 

So the choice is up to you. If at all since the kit flaps are fantastic on their own without any photoetch!

 

 

 

There is a minor technological problem also with an off-set of the production films for the top and the bottom surfaces which results in the half etched areas to be moved to one side. There is absolutely nothing that we can do about this.

 

In a next step of my own will add some details of the flap actuators which the photoetch maker simply missed and forgot to make. Sad but nothing is perfect.

 

  

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

With some of the simple photoetch constructions out of the way, now the next level, a little more advanced brass work.

 

The set includes Part 55 which is supposed to be the replacement of the plastic kit part for muzzle of the 37 millimetre cannon. Don’t be surprised, yes it is a 2D completely flat half etched part! The modeller is supposed to roll it up into a cylindrical barrel shape, glue it together and add Part 46, a ring to the front. It is easy to say but far more difficult to do! Nothing is impossible, after all this was a technology used by this company way back some 30 years ago for building anything and everything round, cylindrical no matter how small or big.    

 

 

 

One has to soften the brass before doing anything. I cut the surrounding “frame” from the photoetch fret so would not damage with heat the other parts surrounding it on the photoetch sheet but still can hold it. Heated it with a lighter. Cut the part and started the work. The hard rubber of an old ice hockey puck is used as base for bending. The tools can be anything and everything. One of the things I used was the stem of an appropriate diameter drill. The annealed brass is still hard metal to work with to get a perfect and nice barrel! Easy to write down the process, but how it works in reality is very far from this!

 

 

 

Why did I do it? Simple, wanted to see if it is possible to do it but have absolutely no intention of ever using the end result.

Gluing the barrel together is not easy either since one has to glue edge to edge! There is no overlapping area which could help.

 

 

 

Is it worth all the work and the time it takes? Don’t think so!

 

First of all the Polish maker Master produced a set especially designed for the MiG-17F (AM-48-090) which has turned brass parts for ALL the guns but also the two pitot tubes on the wing edges. The dimensions and the shape is perfect copy of the real cannons! The set is cheap and extremely simple to use, so why bother with all that bending work.   

 

 

 

  

 

The reason is not really clear for this Part 55 on the MiG-17F photoetch, since the company does produce a 3D printed set for the 37 & 23 mm cannons. Also the company at every possible opportunity communicates that 3D printing is the single and only possible future in our hobby with all other technologies fading away.  ( I don’t share this opinion! )

True that these 3D parts are supposed to be for a MiG-15 kit but if they manufactured them as a copy of the real guns and not simply as a replica of the kit plastic parts then they should be OK for the MiG-17F also since the actual cannons are exactly the same.

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[RichB63]

Outstanding work Gabor!

Can you expound on the chemical treatment applied to the brass flap parts?

What product are you using?

And where can it be found?

 

Thanks,

Rich

 

 

[ya-gabor]

Hi Rich,

 

I have been using the chemical blackening ever since first tried it many, many years ago. There are different manufacturers as far as I know but the one I always used was from the Polish company Master. It is a 50 ml “bottle” and have been using it for ages, so you don’t need much. I always reuse it.

Prefer it simply for the ease of use, perfect result, there are no extra layers, after layers of paint to achieve what you want. Also it gives a slightly so to say “corroded” metal surface which will take paints better if one needs it (like in case of the above flaps).

 

 

Usually do several dips into the solution. You will see, it goes dark and then black in couple of minutes. I take it out, give it a wash, rub the surface with paper towel, when part of the chemically attacked surface will come off. Absolutely no problem. Give it another dip, wait few minutes, wash it again. One can repeat this process endless times, till the final result is what you need. A slight rub can even give highlights and leave darker “shadow” areas for your parts. One can play around with it!

 

One important thing when using it! DO NOT TOUCH THE METAL SURFACE BEFORE PUTTING IT INTO THE BLACKENING SOLUTION!!! Very important since the grease on your fingers (no matter how clean your hands are) will prevent the solution “attacking” the metal surface!!!    I either use rubber gloves when cutting /working with the brass photoetch parts or after handling them make a very extensive washing / cleaning of parts before blackening! Prefer gloves. For the cannon barrel in question I also gave thorough sanding of the surface after it was bent to the cylindrical shape. Remember any parts of the surface with superglue on it will be protected from the blackening solution, so get rid of it on the outer surface. For the inside of this cannon muzzle its not a problem to have the glue on, one can simply paint it inside with a small brush latter on.  

 

Here are some photos from few years back when I described the use of the blackening solution on a Spandau gun.

 

As it was before blackening

 

 

After a dip in the solution

 

 

 

 

Same technology for an M61 Vulcan gun in 72nd scale

 

 

 

Hope this helps!

 

Best regards

Gabor

[ya-gabor]

This is what the raw sprues look like.

 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[RichB63]

6 hours ago, ya-gabor said:

Hi Rich,

 

I have been using the chemical blackening ever since first tried it many, many years ago. There are different manufacturers as far as I know but the one I always used was from the Polish company Master. It is a 50 ml “bottle” and have been using it for ages, so you don’t need much. I always reuse it.

Prefer it simply for the ease of use, perfect result, there are no extra layers, after layers of paint to achieve what you want. Also it gives a slightly so to say “corroded” metal surface which will take paints better if one needs it (like in case of the above flaps).

 

 

Usually do several dips into the solution. You will see, it goes dark and then black in couple of minutes. I take it out, give it a wash, rub the surface with paper towel, when part of the chemically attacked surface will come off. Absolutely no problem. Give it another dip, wait few minutes, wash it again. One can repeat this process endless times, till the final result is what you need. A slight rub can even give highlights and leave darker “shadow” areas for your parts. One can play around with it!

 

One important thing when using it! DO NOT TOUCH THE METAL SURFACE BEFORE PUTTING IT INTO THE BLACKENING SOLUTION!!! Very important since the grease on your fingers (no matter how clean your hands are) will prevent the solution “attacking” the metal surface!!!    I either use rubber gloves when cutting /working with the brass photoetch parts or after handling them make a very extensive washing / cleaning of parts before blackening! Prefer gloves. For the cannon barrel in question I also gave thorough sanding of the surface after it was bent to the cylindrical shape. Remember any parts of the surface with superglue on it will be protected from the blackening solution, so get rid of it on the outer surface. For the inside of this cannon muzzle its not a problem to have the glue on, one can simply paint it inside with a small brush latter on.  

 

Here are some photos from few years back when I described the use of the blackening solution on a Spandau gun.

 

As it was before blackening

 

 

After a dip in the solution

 

 

 

 

Same technology for an M61 Vulcan gun in 72nd scale

 

 

 

Hope this helps!

 

Best regards

Gabor

Many thanks for the detailed explanation! And keep up the great work…your builds are very inspiring 👍

Rich

[ya-gabor]

Hi Rich,

 

You are welcome!  Glad to have been of help. The subject of blackening agent is interesting and I think it could have even more uses in our hobby. It is all abou trying, or to be precise about trial and error. 

 

Best regards

Gabor