1/48 F-86A: it's almost here...

[JeffreyK]

p.s. I already have the J47 front end with accessory cone in CAD as I did it for my Kitty Hawk FJ-2 Fury correction set. Obviously, the parts are matched for the Kitty Hawk kit and would have to be adjusted or partially redesigned to fit the CP F-86 kit...

Edited September 12, 2024 by JeffreyK

[CF104]

1 hour ago, JeffreyK said:

 

I noticed and thought about this from the first time I saw the actual kit parts.

"That doesn't look like a J47 front end" I tohught to myself. I immediately considered making an aftermarket correction, but then I thought I may not be able to sell any as probably no one else would care about a nearly invisible detail...

So should I have a go?

Jeffrey

 

Hey Jeffrey, You do know that if you make it I'll have to buy it. 

 

Cheers,

 

John

[Sabrejet]

I'd suggest that a full-kit J47 would be nice. There have been a few kits over the years that have given us simplified engines (Academy in 1/48; Hasegawa in 1/32) but as yet no really detailed options. 

[ya-gabor]

There is a 48th scale aftermarket J-47 out there.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[JeffreyK]

That's a good 25+ years old I think...wasn't there also a J79 from that manufacturer? Not sure...

J

[ya-gabor]

26 minutes ago, JeffreyK said:

That's a good 25+ years old I think...wasn't there also a J79 from that manufacturer? Not sure...

J

Hi Jeffrey,

 

Have no idea how old it is. Just seen it on the net. Scale is right. Have no idea about the quality. 

 

 

But for anyone wanting to see the J-47 close up in 1 / 1 scale, including that "beak" front cone it is worth having a look at couple of videos on line, like this one:

Just for the fun of it! And of course one can learn a thing or two even for a model build.

 

 

and the follow up here:

 

 

Could not find the part where they actually fire up the thing.  But I am sure the problem is in me. : )  : )

 

If I understand right this one is from a bomber and not an F-86 so the intake grid is integral part and can be open/closed. 

 

Best regards

Gabor 

[JeffreyK]

Yes, had seen and studied those vids many times over 🙂

The nose cone is unique to the intakes of the F-86 and FJ-2 though, the B-47 had notmal, symmetrical cones. but the engine itself of course may have come from a B-47, B-45 or B-36...

I thought the intake grid was always in hinged sections and retractable?

J

[ya-gabor]

12 minutes ago, JeffreyK said:

Yes, had seen and studied those vids many times over 🙂

The nose cone is unique to the intakes of the F-86 and FJ-2 though, the B-47 had notmal, symmetrical cones. but the engine itself of course may have come from a B-47, B-45 or B-36...

I thought the intake grid was always in hinged sections and retractable?

J

 

Period photos of the intake grid on J-47 from F-86 show it as a fix ring further forward. 

But of course I have no idea about J-47's, all I can comment is what I see on photos and manuals on the net. I am sure there are engine experts out there who willl know better.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[Sabrejet]

That Dolphin J47!!! I remember it from (IIRC) the late '80s/early 90s. I think there was a German-produced one prior to that too. I'd usually think "Oh so it's 25 years old then". How time flies...

 

And yes the screens were retractable but had a habit of breaking up. The J47 inlet cone ("pecker") housed the starter/generator and was tailored to the intake contours.

[Sabrejet]

Re: J47 sources, though not directly interchangeable between B-36, B-47 etc derivatives, conversion was possible. When the RAF retired its Sabre fleet in 1955, most were reworked for onward service with Italy and Yugoslavia. That rework was done by several civilian agencies (Airwork, ATEL etc) and involved where possible the installation of zero-timed accessories. Even at that time the J47 was still in production but as B-36s began to be withdrawn from service their engines proved a cheaper source and so converted B-36 power plants and accessories went into reworked Sabres for those two nations.

[ya-gabor]

There is a good photo from Kimpo base in 1951 where there are two J-47’s, one with the FOD grid while the other had it removed.

The interesting thing is that this is a very different protection grid. It is a fixed ring. As far as I can see it is made of two parts and fixed with bolts and a constriction ring on the centre body of the engine. It is obvious that this one had absolutely no moving parts! It was a fixed screen. Fortunately one example of this screen is preserved on a museum J-47!

The engine version seen in that video has a completely different protection screen which is retractable.

In my opinion here we are speaking about two very different versions of the engine. What the particular code for them? Have no idea but it is clearly visible that they are different FOD grids/screens.

 

Unfortunately have no idea who the copyright owner of contemporary photo. Hope sharing the photo is OK.

 

Best regards

Gabor

[BWDenver]

The J47's also powered a number of Salt flat cars like the Spirit of America...

[Sabrejet]

Not all J47s featured retractable inlet screens: what you see in the video is an E-series F-86F powerplant.

[CF104]

1 hour ago, ya-gabor said:

There is a good photo from Kimpo base in 1951 where there are two J-47’s, one with the FOD grid while the other had it removed.

The interesting thing is that this is a very different protection grid. It is a fixed ring. As far as I can see it is made of two parts and fixed with bolts and a constriction ring on the centre body of the engine. It is obvious that this one had absolutely no moving parts! It was a fixed screen. Fortunately one example of this screen is preserved on a museum J-47!

The engine version seen in that video has a completely different protection screen which is retractable.

In my opinion here we are speaking about two very different versions of the engine. What the particular code for them? Have no idea but it is clearly visible that they are different FOD grids/screens.

 

Unfortunately have no idea who the copyright owner of contemporary photo. Hope sharing the photo is OK.

 

Best regards

Gabor

 

 

The J47 in the video is most likely a J47-GE-27 as used in the F-86F. The FOD screen on the -27 was retractable in flight via a switch in the cockpit. 

 

The F-86A had the J47-GE-7 which had a fixed FOD screen installed which could not be retracted. There are 2 versions. Both of which can be seen in that photo. The engine on the right has the original external fixed screen and the one on the left has the internal fixed screen which resembles the -27 engine screen. The F-86A didn't have a switch in the cockpit to retract the screen so flight in any sort of icing producing conditions was highly discouraged. 

 

Cheers,

 

John

[ya-gabor]

18 minutes ago, CF104 said:

 

 

The J47 in the video is most likely a J47-GE-27 as used in the F-86F. The FOD screen on the -27 was retractable in flight via a switch in the cockpit. 

 

The F-86A had the J47-GE-7 which had a fixed FOD screen installed which could not be retracted. There are 2 versions. Both of which can be seen in that photo. The engine on the right has the original external fixed screen and the one on the left has the internal fixed screen which resembles the -27 engine screen. The F-86A didn't have a switch in the cockpit to retract the screen so flight in any sort of icing producing conditions was highly discouraged. 

 

Cheers,

 

John

 

Thanks for the precise information! As stated before I can only look at some photos but have little knowledge of both the F-86 and the J-47.

 

Since the topic of this forum is the F-86A I think to show the fixed screen is important and informative. But it in no way what so ever influences the quality of this excellent ClearProp! kit or the design that went into it. Specially the work of Sabrejet!

 

The question about the engine, the "beak" on it or the screen is just an additional information but as Sabrejet has said, little of it will be visible on a finished kit.

But it could add a lot to anyone who wishes to build a separate J-47 next to the kit. 

 

Best regards

Gabor

[Paul Boyer]

2 hours ago, BWDenver said:

The J47's also powered a number of Salt flat cars like the Spirit of America...

"With a J47

a jet for his power

Craig Breedlove had averaged

407 per hour" – "Spirit of America" by Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys

 

 

[Sabrejet]

Sabres to Beach Boys: now that is a thread!

 

Another random fact: the J47 was the first jet engine approved for civilian use.

[JeffreyK]

The grid makes it a difficult proposition for an aftermarket item though...

J

[Sabrejet]

Perfect for PE, but either way (fixed or retractable), it's not mandatory to feature it.

[Ben Brown]

That’s really interesting! I had no idea there was a screen there. I would think they’d have removed it pretty quickly while in Korea to get every extra ounce of thrust out of the engine. Although given the condition of the airfields there, maybe not.

 

Ben

[CF104]

On 9/13/2024 at 8:46 AM, Ben Brown said:

That’s really interesting! I had no idea there was a screen there. I would think they’d have removed it pretty quickly while in Korea to get every extra ounce of thrust out of the engine. Although given the condition of the airfields there, maybe not.

 

Ben

 

The screen itself wasn't fine enough to block airflow to the point of having an effect on performance. Early turbine engines were very susceptible to FOD damage and this was just a simple way of mitigating this. Even centrifugal engines like the Allison J33 and the Rolls Royce Nene had inlet screens for the same purpose. 

 

Cheers,

 

John 

[BWDenver]

This page out of a QF-80F shows the inlet screens of the time a bit better. 

 

 

The screens primarily prevent FOD from entering the engine.

 

Brayn

[Ben Brown]

On 9/16/2024 at 1:44 PM, CF104 said:

 

The screen itself wasn't fine enough to block airflow to the point of having an effect on performance. Early turbine engines were very susceptible to FOD damage and this was just a simple way of mitigating this. Even centrifugal engines like the Allison J33 and the Rolls Royce Nene had inlet screens for the same purpose. 

 

Cheers,

 

John 

Thanks!

 

Ben

[dai phan]

Hi all,

 

CP also offers 3D printed parts that are more detailed than kit’s offering. Why didn’t they incorporate these enhancements in the kit? Marketing ploy? Dai

[Geoff M]

4 hours ago, dai phan said:

Hi all,

 

CP also offers 3D printed parts that are more detailed than kit’s offering. Why didn’t they incorporate these enhancements in the kit? Marketing ploy? Dai

You guessed wisely.