BWDenver Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 3 hours ago, Sabrejet said: I'm surprised they bothered, given the bloody nit-picking. Maybe just stick with the old Lindberg kit. Actually, now that you mentioned Lindberg... For years they used the same seat in all their jet kits. It turns out it was a Republic Seat. The AF wanted a "Standard Seat" and contracted with Republic to produce it. Turns out the only bird it was used in was the B-47. But Lindberg used it in all their kits! I've seen reviews where people say the kit is unbuildable, and when asked why, they reply it is a scale half inch too short. I just shake my head over that. That is nit picking, and probably make the model company's kick their drafting tables. But given the information available today, I find it hard to understand why companies don't go the extra mark to get a good cockpit. That is potentially the "Jewl box" of a built model. I picked up Great Wall's "Early T-33", in the hopes they actually had the early seat. But alas, it was the Lockheed Pre-ROCAT seat from the late 50's. Monogram really screwed up with the F-8. They sent the plans for the A-6 and F-8 to Singapore at the same time, but only included the plans for the Mk.GRU seat. Thats how it ended up in both kits. I may not know what the various wings are for the F-86, they had a lot of them, but even Steave Wonder can tell these two seats aren't the same... Bryan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CF104 Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 Nit picking alert! Looking at the kit engine inlet face (part L3) has me wondering why CP went with a super simplified part. The F-86 offset pointed engine accessory fairing was a very unique feature of the Sabre and was done with limited success by Hasegawa/Academy and Airfix did a pretty good job of it. I know the easy answer is that it's hard to see but they seem to have done a pretty good job with the J47 exhaust which is equally hard to see. It's obviously not going to stop me from building the kit but I am scratching my head over it. Fodder for the aftermarket folks I guess. Below link is to the L sprue. L3 is in the lower left corner. ClearProp L Sprue This link shows an F-86A with the engine removed and the accessory fairing installed. F-86A-5-NA Engine Change Cheers, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted September 11 Author Share Posted September 11 It's hard to see. However I replaced mine with the Airfix item: it comes in two separate parts and is an easy swap. I still can't really see it 🙂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted September 11 Share Posted September 11 I was also going to ask about the J-47 front end part, but was not sure if this is only an early version for the F-86A's and this is why it looks like it in the kit. Not a great expert on the J-47 but as far as I could see from period photos the engine also had a protective circular grid or mesh around the intake. So if one would want to be completely authentic then it would look very different. I say it would look but actually there is little of it visible if at all! Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted September 11 Author Share Posted September 11 The circular grid (not all engine types) was a retractable FOD guard; in practice it led to ice accretion in certain weather conditions and so was rarely used. Having said that, it was still being installed in J47s during F-86F production. I recall that its deletion was finally achieved as part of F-86D weight-saving. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeffreyK Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 7 hours ago, CF104 said: Nit picking alert! Looking at the kit engine inlet face (part L3) has me wondering why CP went with a super simplified part. The F-86 offset pointed engine accessory fairing was a very unique feature of the Sabre and was done with limited success by Hasegawa/Academy and Airfix did a pretty good job of it. I know the easy answer is that it's hard to see but they seem to have done a pretty good job with the J47 exhaust which is equally hard to see. It's obviously not going to stop me from building the kit but I am scratching my head over it. Fodder for the aftermarket folks I guess. Below link is to the L sprue. L3 is in the lower left corner. ClearProp L Sprue This link shows an F-86A with the engine removed and the accessory fairing installed. F-86A-5-NA Engine Change Cheers, John I noticed and thought about this from the first time I saw the actual kit parts. "That doesn't look like a J47 front end" I tohught to myself. I immediately considered making an aftermarket correction, but then I thought I may not be able to sell any as probably no one else would care about a nearly invisible detail... So should I have a go? Jeffrey Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeffreyK Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 (edited) p.s. I already have the J47 front end with accessory cone in CAD as I did it for my Kitty Hawk FJ-2 Fury correction set. Obviously, the parts are matched for the Kitty Hawk kit and would have to be adjusted or partially redesigned to fit the CP F-86 kit... Edited September 12 by JeffreyK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CF104 Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 1 hour ago, JeffreyK said: I noticed and thought about this from the first time I saw the actual kit parts. "That doesn't look like a J47 front end" I tohught to myself. I immediately considered making an aftermarket correction, but then I thought I may not be able to sell any as probably no one else would care about a nearly invisible detail... So should I have a go? Jeffrey Hey Jeffrey, You do know that if you make it I'll have to buy it. Cheers, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted September 12 Author Share Posted September 12 I'd suggest that a full-kit J47 would be nice. There have been a few kits over the years that have given us simplified engines (Academy in 1/48; Hasegawa in 1/32) but as yet no really detailed options. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 There is a 48th scale aftermarket J-47 out there. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeffreyK Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 That's a good 25+ years old I think...wasn't there also a J79 from that manufacturer? Not sure... J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 26 minutes ago, JeffreyK said: That's a good 25+ years old I think...wasn't there also a J79 from that manufacturer? Not sure... J Hi Jeffrey, Have no idea how old it is. Just seen it on the net. Scale is right. Have no idea about the quality. But for anyone wanting to see the J-47 close up in 1 / 1 scale, including that "beak" front cone it is worth having a look at couple of videos on line, like this one: Just for the fun of it! And of course one can learn a thing or two even for a model build. and the follow up here: Could not find the part where they actually fire up the thing. But I am sure the problem is in me. : ) : ) If I understand right this one is from a bomber and not an F-86 so the intake grid is integral part and can be open/closed. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeffreyK Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 Yes, had seen and studied those vids many times over 🙂 The nose cone is unique to the intakes of the F-86 and FJ-2 though, the B-47 had notmal, symmetrical cones. but the engine itself of course may have come from a B-47, B-45 or B-36... I thought the intake grid was always in hinged sections and retractable? J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 12 minutes ago, JeffreyK said: Yes, had seen and studied those vids many times over 🙂 The nose cone is unique to the intakes of the F-86 and FJ-2 though, the B-47 had notmal, symmetrical cones. but the engine itself of course may have come from a B-47, B-45 or B-36... I thought the intake grid was always in hinged sections and retractable? J Period photos of the intake grid on J-47 from F-86 show it as a fix ring further forward. But of course I have no idea about J-47's, all I can comment is what I see on photos and manuals on the net. I am sure there are engine experts out there who willl know better. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted September 12 Author Share Posted September 12 That Dolphin J47!!! I remember it from (IIRC) the late '80s/early 90s. I think there was a German-produced one prior to that too. I'd usually think "Oh so it's 25 years old then". How time flies... And yes the screens were retractable but had a habit of breaking up. The J47 inlet cone ("pecker") housed the starter/generator and was tailored to the intake contours. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted September 12 Author Share Posted September 12 Re: J47 sources, though not directly interchangeable between B-36, B-47 etc derivatives, conversion was possible. When the RAF retired its Sabre fleet in 1955, most were reworked for onward service with Italy and Yugoslavia. That rework was done by several civilian agencies (Airwork, ATEL etc) and involved where possible the installation of zero-timed accessories. Even at that time the J47 was still in production but as B-36s began to be withdrawn from service their engines proved a cheaper source and so converted B-36 power plants and accessories went into reworked Sabres for those two nations. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 There is a good photo from Kimpo base in 1951 where there are two J-47’s, one with the FOD grid while the other had it removed. The interesting thing is that this is a very different protection grid. It is a fixed ring. As far as I can see it is made of two parts and fixed with bolts and a constriction ring on the centre body of the engine. It is obvious that this one had absolutely no moving parts! It was a fixed screen. Fortunately one example of this screen is preserved on a museum J-47! The engine version seen in that video has a completely different protection screen which is retractable. In my opinion here we are speaking about two very different versions of the engine. What the particular code for them? Have no idea but it is clearly visible that they are different FOD grids/screens. Unfortunately have no idea who the copyright owner of contemporary photo. Hope sharing the photo is OK. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 The J47's also powered a number of Salt flat cars like the Spirit of America... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted September 12 Author Share Posted September 12 Not all J47s featured retractable inlet screens: what you see in the video is an E-series F-86F powerplant. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CF104 Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 1 hour ago, ya-gabor said: There is a good photo from Kimpo base in 1951 where there are two J-47’s, one with the FOD grid while the other had it removed. The interesting thing is that this is a very different protection grid. It is a fixed ring. As far as I can see it is made of two parts and fixed with bolts and a constriction ring on the centre body of the engine. It is obvious that this one had absolutely no moving parts! It was a fixed screen. Fortunately one example of this screen is preserved on a museum J-47! The engine version seen in that video has a completely different protection screen which is retractable. In my opinion here we are speaking about two very different versions of the engine. What the particular code for them? Have no idea but it is clearly visible that they are different FOD grids/screens. Unfortunately have no idea who the copyright owner of contemporary photo. Hope sharing the photo is OK. Best regards Gabor The J47 in the video is most likely a J47-GE-27 as used in the F-86F. The FOD screen on the -27 was retractable in flight via a switch in the cockpit. The F-86A had the J47-GE-7 which had a fixed FOD screen installed which could not be retracted. There are 2 versions. Both of which can be seen in that photo. The engine on the right has the original external fixed screen and the one on the left has the internal fixed screen which resembles the -27 engine screen. The F-86A didn't have a switch in the cockpit to retract the screen so flight in any sort of icing producing conditions was highly discouraged. Cheers, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 18 minutes ago, CF104 said: The J47 in the video is most likely a J47-GE-27 as used in the F-86F. The FOD screen on the -27 was retractable in flight via a switch in the cockpit. The F-86A had the J47-GE-7 which had a fixed FOD screen installed which could not be retracted. There are 2 versions. Both of which can be seen in that photo. The engine on the right has the original external fixed screen and the one on the left has the internal fixed screen which resembles the -27 engine screen. The F-86A didn't have a switch in the cockpit to retract the screen so flight in any sort of icing producing conditions was highly discouraged. Cheers, John Thanks for the precise information! As stated before I can only look at some photos but have little knowledge of both the F-86 and the J-47. Since the topic of this forum is the F-86A I think to show the fixed screen is important and informative. But it in no way what so ever influences the quality of this excellent ClearProp! kit or the design that went into it. Specially the work of Sabrejet! The question about the engine, the "beak" on it or the screen is just an additional information but as Sabrejet has said, little of it will be visible on a finished kit. But it could add a lot to anyone who wishes to build a separate J-47 next to the kit. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paul Boyer Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 2 hours ago, BWDenver said: The J47's also powered a number of Salt flat cars like the Spirit of America... "With a J47 a jet for his power Craig Breedlove had averaged 407 per hour" – "Spirit of America" by Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted September 12 Author Share Posted September 12 Sabres to Beach Boys: now that is a thread! Another random fact: the J47 was the first jet engine approved for civilian use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeffreyK Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 The grid makes it a difficult proposition for an aftermarket item though... J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted September 13 Author Share Posted September 13 Perfect for PE, but either way (fixed or retractable), it's not mandatory to feature it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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