Ben Brown Posted September 13 Share Posted September 13 That’s really interesting! I had no idea there was a screen there. I would think they’d have removed it pretty quickly while in Korea to get every extra ounce of thrust out of the engine. Although given the condition of the airfields there, maybe not. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CF104 Posted September 16 Share Posted September 16 On 9/13/2024 at 8:46 AM, Ben Brown said: That’s really interesting! I had no idea there was a screen there. I would think they’d have removed it pretty quickly while in Korea to get every extra ounce of thrust out of the engine. Although given the condition of the airfields there, maybe not. Ben The screen itself wasn't fine enough to block airflow to the point of having an effect on performance. Early turbine engines were very susceptible to FOD damage and this was just a simple way of mitigating this. Even centrifugal engines like the Allison J33 and the Rolls Royce Nene had inlet screens for the same purpose. Cheers, John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 This page out of a QF-80F shows the inlet screens of the time a bit better. The screens primarily prevent FOD from entering the engine. Brayn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted September 17 Share Posted September 17 On 9/16/2024 at 1:44 PM, CF104 said: The screen itself wasn't fine enough to block airflow to the point of having an effect on performance. Early turbine engines were very susceptible to FOD damage and this was just a simple way of mitigating this. Even centrifugal engines like the Allison J33 and the Rolls Royce Nene had inlet screens for the same purpose. Cheers, John Thanks! Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 Hi all, CP also offers 3D printed parts that are more detailed than kit’s offering. Why didn’t they incorporate these enhancements in the kit? Marketing ploy? Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Geoff M Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 4 hours ago, dai phan said: Hi all, CP also offers 3D printed parts that are more detailed than kit’s offering. Why didn’t they incorporate these enhancements in the kit? Marketing ploy? Dai You guessed wisely. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeffreyK Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 4 hours ago, dai phan said: Hi all, CP also offers 3D printed parts that are more detailed than kit’s offering. Why didn’t they incorporate these enhancements in the kit? Marketing ploy? Dai Because 3D printed parts are printed in dozens up to hundreds, but not thousands like an injection moulded kit. You need to have significant printing infrastructure to do that. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted September 30 Author Share Posted September 30 33 minutes ago, JeffreyK said: Because 3D printed parts are printed in dozens up to hundreds, but not thousands like an injection moulded kit. You need to have significant printing infrastructure to do that. J Thanks Jeffrey. It's always a lose-lose situation. You offer resin and folks complain that the kit parts are OK, they're paying more for parts they won't use, and that they don't like resin; or you don't include them.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 6 hours ago, dai phan said: Hi all, CP also offers 3D printed parts that are more detailed than kit’s offering. Why didn’t they incorporate these enhancements in the kit? Marketing ploy? Dai There is no ploy of any sort in it I believe. Very simple, there are so many manufacturers producing a good plastic kit while in different “department” within the company would produce some aftermarket parts for further detailing the kit. Don’t have to look far, look at most Czech manufacturers doing this business model! Anyone who wants / needs to include further details can get the extra parts if he wants. While the kit in itself is good! Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Niels Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 1 hour ago, ya-gabor said: Anyone who wants / needs to include further details can get the extra parts if he wants. While the kit in itself is good! Spot on @ya-gabor! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 Hi all, I personally feel resin "upgrade" is a way for a company to make extra money. Why not incorporate these fine details into the kit? I can see third parties put out more detailed parts to enhance/correct a kit but I find it odd to come from the same company. It is a marketing move to make additional money. Just put these enhanced detailed into the kit and make it the definitive, hands down F-86A. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeffreyK Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 2 minutes ago, dai phan said: Hi all, I personally feel resin "upgrade" is a way for a company to make extra money. Why not incorporate these fine details into the kit? I can see third parties put out more detailed parts to enhance/correct a kit but I find it odd to come from the same company. It is a marketing move to make additional money. Just put these enhanced detailed into the kit and make it the definitive, hands down F-86A. Dai Seems like you have absolutely not read or understood my explanation. No one is forcing you to buy the parts. And you don't want the company to make money and maximise their investment in the project? So Eduard should put all their resin parts for their own kits into the box and charge €200 for a 1:48 Spitfire? Anyway, case closed. J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 3 minutes ago, JeffreyK said: Seems like you have absolutely not read or understood my explanation. No one is forcing you to buy the parts. And you don't want the company to make money and maximise their investment in the project? So Eduard should put all their resin parts for their own kits into the box and charge €200 for a 1:48 Spitfire? Anyway, case closed. J As you wish. That is my personal feeling on these "upgraded" resin parts. Nuff said! Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted September 30 Author Share Posted September 30 27 minutes ago, JeffreyK said: Seems like you have absolutely not read or understood my explanation. No one is forcing you to buy the parts. And you don't want the company to make money and maximise their investment in the project? So Eduard should put all their resin parts for their own kits into the box and charge €200 for a 1:48 Spitfire? Anyway, case closed. J Or so you'd think. Many of the parts CP offer as aftermarket are not there to improve on detail of the kit but to provide options. So instead of the closed gun ports in the kit you have the option for a later configuration; similar with the ejection seat, which is an earlier and more unusual option. Not so long ago most people wouldn't have known there was a difference but now somehow it's VERY important. Pleasing everyone with the right balance of 'all options/very expensive' and fewer 'options/affordable' is difficult. Not so long ago we were begging for a 1/48 F-86A: now it seems all we can do is criticise it for not being - well what exactly? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 7 minutes ago, Sabrejet said: Or so you'd think. Many of the parts CP offer as aftermarket are not there to improve on detail of the kit but to provide options. So instead of the closed gun ports in the kit you have the option for a later configuration; similar with the ejection seat, which is an earlier and more unusual option. Not so long ago most people wouldn't have known there was a difference but now somehow it's VERY important. Pleasing everyone with the right balance of 'all options/very expensive' and fewer 'options/affordable' is difficult. Not so long ago we were begging for a 1/48 F-86A: now it seems all we can do is criticise it for not being - well what exactly? Unless I did not view these resin parts correctly, I welcome upgrades as "options" rather than improving the details of the kit. I remember on YT the resin speed brakes are offered because they have more details then the kit's offering? I would extremely welcome the option of open gun bays/ammunition bays! Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 I have looked at the instruction sheet and I find it odd the modeler has to mark and drill the holes for the drop tanks. This is easy to mess up the location. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 A model release is an interesting study in human nature. A company fills a void with something that is actually new, and not another P-51 or Me-109. There is an initial blush of excitement, then acrimony because they missed a detail or in this case offer aftermarket choices. The complaining about lack of detail in a kit is similar to our choice of movies. We want more action. In the 60’s a little action and good dialog would suffice. Today the option is a John Wick movie with an absurd amount of action and bad language. In the 60’s people were happy to get a Monogram Me-109 or F4F. Now something approaching a Model Factory Hiro kit is the desired standard. But people would pale at the price of $150 USD for a 1/43 kit, if you’re lucky to get one before they sell out. Detail in a kit costs money. The manufacturer has to figure out the amount of detail VS expected sales. Get it wrong and you lose money. Adding multiple holes in the kit for parts adds to the cost. At the end of the day these guys are doing it to make a living. Be they large like Revell, or small like CP, the goal it to make money to fund the next project. I’ll probably never build a 1/48 F-86A. I have way too many other “want to build” projects. But I’m happy to see they did one, and even happier to see they made the extra effort to do multiple seats. One of the reasons I started a seat thread in the jet Modeling forum was to give those who want to go the extra mile an opportunity to do a jewel box of a cockpit. Most folks will build the kit right out of the box, and have fun doing it. A few will make the extra effort to really do the cockpit. But thanks to CP, you get the opportunity to do an A… Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jetdog Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 See page 9 of this forum for an explanation on the drop tank hole placement. As explained, it wasn't noticed until the kit was in production and it was too late to fix. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted September 30 Author Share Posted September 30 1 hour ago, BWDenver said: Now something approaching a Model Factory Hiro kit is the desired standard. But people would pale at the price of $150 USD for a 1/43 kit, if you’re lucky to get one before they sell out. Wayyyyyyyy off topic but you got my attention. I've built six or seven 1/43 MFH kits and they are IMHO the best value for my modelling money there is. Fortunately I still have one or two in the stash for a rainy month or so. But shock! horror! you have to do some work to make them. Dreadful ain't it? 😉 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted September 30 Share Posted September 30 4 hours ago, Sabrejet said: Wayyyyyyyy off topic but you got my attention. I've built six or seven 1/43 MFH kits and they are IMHO the best value for my modelling money there is. Fortunately I still have one or two in the stash for a rainy month or so. But shock! horror! you have to do some work to make them. Dreadful ain't it? 😉 Say it isn't so! I remember a modeler in the DC IPMS chapter that would always complain about the "$40" 1/48 Hasegawa kit. He only built 1/72 scale. But when you look at inflation that was the $3 kit of the 60's. Wonder what he would have thought of the IMHO kits.... Back a little bit on topic, I'm digging through a USAF doc on ejection seats from the late mid 50's and it mentioned that the F-86 had 4 different seats, assuming all flavors F-86. I can account for two, maybe three if you consider mechanical vs Gas fired. The seat in the 86A, E & F. Then the 86d, K & L, which sort of was the same seat in the H.. Your thoughts???? Bryan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted October 1 Author Share Posted October 1 9 hours ago, BWDenver said: Say it isn't so! I remember a modeler in the DC IPMS chapter that would always complain about the "$40" 1/48 Hasegawa kit. He only built 1/72 scale. But when you look at inflation that was the $3 kit of the 60's. Wonder what he would have thought of the IMHO kits.... Back a little bit on topic, I'm digging through a USAF doc on ejection seats from the late mid 50's and it mentioned that the F-86 had 4 different seats, assuming all flavors F-86. I can account for two, maybe three if you consider mechanical vs Gas fired. The seat in the 86A, E & F. Then the 86d, K & L, which sort of was the same seat in the H.. Your thoughts???? Bryan I'd have said three also, if you only count NAA seats. Maybe they also counted automatically-opening harness as a variation? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Niels Posted October 1 Share Posted October 1 19 hours ago, BWDenver said: Back a little bit on topic, I'm digging through a USAF doc on ejection seats from the late mid 50's and it mentioned that the F-86 had 4 different seats, assuming all flavors F-86. I can account for two, maybe three if you consider mechanical vs Gas fired. The seat in the 86A, E & F. Then the 86d, K & L, which sort of was the same seat in the H.. Your thoughts???? Bryan The RNoAF was the first to introduce the Martin Baker Mk 5 on the F-86F and F-86K that flew in Norwegian service. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted October 1 Author Share Posted October 1 22 minutes ago, Niels said: The RNoAF was the first to introduce the Martin Baker Mk 5 on the F-86F and F-86K that flew in Norwegian service. Not in USAF service however. I suspect the document is referring to a variant of an existing NAA seat among the three main versions. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 Hi all, I simply cannot order from CP's site. After I select check out, I was advised to check my email to complete the order. I have never gotten anything and I already look in the junk/spam box. I have tried 2 separate emails and still no go. I ended up order from a different vendor. Does anyone have this issue? Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted October 2 Share Posted October 2 As far as I know ClearProp! have sold out completely the first production batch of the kit in just seconds. This could be the reason. Only they can say when it will be available again. Dont forget there is a bloody war going on in that country!!! Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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