BWDenver Posted February 17, 2025 Share Posted February 17, 2025 52 minutes ago, anj4de said: ...plus the two MB seats, the Mk.5 like in the German birds and even Mk.10s in Sabres from Honduras... Quite true, but I was referring to the N American seats... The Mk.10's didn't last all that long as they withdrew the F-86 shortly after. Apparently one of their best-known pilots clipped a tree or something and ejected with the N American seat. It didn't go all that well. While he lived, he was pretty torn up. I've yet to see a picture of a Hondo bird with a Mk-10. I have seen a couple where they claimed the Mk.DS5/GW5/R5/S5 was supposedly the Mk.HN10Z.... So you could make a case for 8? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anj4de Posted February 17, 2025 Share Posted February 17, 2025 Hi Here you go...one pics for sure shows a Mk.10, the other one most likely due to the shape of the hood. thanks Uwe Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted February 17, 2025 Share Posted February 17, 2025 Greatly appreciated. I've been hunting just such an image for about a year. Fascinating that the canopy has the original flat sill. When they fitted the Mk.5's into the Canadair Mk.5 Sabre they had to add a piece to raise the canopy to clear the seat. This is also the last seat to go into a US "Cold War" Airframe that started with US seat and ended with MB. I have shots and drawings on all the others. My own F-86 dream model is this Flight Systems Inc bird I shot at Mojavi in July 1979n N86FS. Every time I flew out to Ft Irwin I would make a point or find an excuse to swing by China Lake, Edwards and Mojavi. This bird eventually got a white paint job like the rest of the FSI Target Tugs. I can only imagine the work that went into polishing this bird, Mojavi in 1979. The bird was rebuilt from spares into essentially a brand-new Mk 5, as described in Duncan's F-86 Drone book. I'm starting with the Hasegawa Sabre Mk.5 Frecce Tricolori kit. I figure an F-100 pitot boom will work for the nose. N82FS 1991, ex German bird with the MB Mk.GW5A seat replaced with NA designed seat. They likely had the excess spare parts for the NA seat. Although the FSI birds in Europe flew with MB seats, at least for the F-100's. I'm using the HaHen FSI F-100F decals for the pattern for the N Number. I have yet to find a font that matches the FSI numbers. I was going through the CH-47D transition at Ft Rucker and decided to make a Florida swing of airfields. Egland was first, Tyndal second and the drone ramp, and I ended at Pensacola at the museum. As you can see this bird has the canopy sill extensions to clear the MB seat. Still love the N86FS finish... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Craig Baldwin Posted February 17, 2025 Share Posted February 17, 2025 47 minutes ago, Illu said: That’s because it’s not a font. 100% guaranteed those numbers were laid up by hand. It would be easy enough to modify an existing font to match, with a Affinity or Adobe application. @BWDenver are you looking at printing the decals on a clear paper? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted February 17, 2025 Author Share Posted February 17, 2025 1 hour ago, BWDenver said: I have yet to find a font that matches the FSI numbers. Bryan, unofficially it was "Amarillo USAF Italic", essentially an FSI house font. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted February 17, 2025 Share Posted February 17, 2025 I'm looking at taking the HaHen F-100 FSI decals and using them as a pattern to draw the N Number out in Adobe Illustrator then porting it to a Cameo 4 cutter I have. I scanned the decals at 1800 DPI so I can get a fairly large pattern to work with. I'm going the cutter route because I figure I can match the paint easier than using my color laser printer. That way the stipes and N Number will be the same and I can use the HaHen decasl for all the other markings. Although I'll probably use the decal paper for Bob Laidlaw's name under the canopy in that funky old English script he used. The hang up now is getting the drones at Silhouette to send me the license that I've paid for to upgrade the SW so It will take the SVG file. Their customer service is decidedly lacking... Looks like a "DR" in front of Bob... First pass at the n Number... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted February 17, 2025 Author Share Posted February 17, 2025 WR "Bob" Laidlaw. The unofficial "Amarillo USAF Italic" came from Bob himself: I guess he'd know... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted February 17, 2025 Share Posted February 17, 2025 (edited) On 2/16/2025 at 5:51 PM, anj4de said: ...plus the two MB seats, the Mk.5 like in the German birds and even Mk.10s in Sabres from Honduras... I guess if you really want to get picky... 1) North American, original seat with the open sides, mechanically fired 2) North American, closed side, mechanically fired. 3) North American, closed side with gas actuators. 4) Mk.DS5 Dutch? 5) Mk.GW5 German 6) Mk.GW5A German (they added a Combined Harness Release lever to the right front of the seat bucket. 7) Mk.R5 Still trying to figure this one out... 😎 Mk.S5 Norway I can't stop the browser from creating the stupid face... 9) Mk.HN10Z Honduras Likely I'm the only one who would get that far down in the weeds on ejections seats... And for fun, the North American seat built by Canadair... So 10? Frogot the seats in the F-86D, K, L and H.... Although you could make the argument that the 86H and 86D had the same seat So 12 or lucky 13? Edited February 18, 2025 by BWDenver Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted February 17, 2025 Share Posted February 17, 2025 4 minutes ago, Sabrejet said: WR "Bob" Laidlaw. The unofficial "Amarillo USAF Italic" came from Bob himself: I guess he'd know... You do have a good point there Duncan! I have Amarillo USAF, but I don't think it will give me the Italic... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted February 17, 2025 Author Share Posted February 17, 2025 1 minute ago, BWDenver said: You do have a good point there Duncan! I have Amarillo USAF, but I don't think it will give me the Italic... Bob painted his name on both sides of the canopy rail. The cockpit layout varied, depending on trial fit (prior to it becoming in 'white' target tug). This fit is contemporary with the NMF scheme. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted February 17, 2025 Author Share Posted February 17, 2025 Couple of reference shots. N86FS wasn't snapped from the right-hand side too often. Bob considered it his little baby and he was really aggrieved when he departed FSI but couldn't take it with him. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted February 17, 2025 Share Posted February 17, 2025 The canopy script is the easy part... WR Bob Laidlaw in Old English Text MT looks just about perfect... This will likely be done on a laser printer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted February 18, 2025 Share Posted February 18, 2025 On 2/17/2025 at 1:55 AM, anj4de said: Hi Here you go...one pics for sure shows a Mk.10, the other one most likely due to the shape of the hood. thanks Uwe On 2/17/2025 at 1:55 AM, anj4de said: From a friend in Honduras. From left to right: Cnel. (r) Israel Navarro (FAH) Mjr. (r) John Lamb (USAF) A-37 pilot that bootlegged a hop in an F-86. Cnel. (r) Jose A. San Martin (FAH) Cap. (r) Blake Thomas (USAF) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bozothenutter Posted February 19, 2025 Share Posted February 19, 2025 On 2/17/2025 at 12:41 AM, anj4de said: Hello all I received my CP Sabre from them a good week ago. I started the build right away. So far a very mixed bag of fleas. Very fine detail combined with sometimes terrible fit issues and a part break down that makes you wonder which devil did ride the designer. Now..by reading here, I learned that they use low presure molding but is this really the reson for parts demarcation running wildly throuh the panels? The front and rear fuselage buttoms are the worst! Now...I got the basic bird together but I will have to do a lot of re-scribing and riveting. I wonder if the molds start wearing out already, the fit reminded my a lot on a Revell Tomcat that I got recently for fee, a very late release made from a totally worn out 40+ years old Monogram mold and removed from the injection machine too early. It requiers pysical strengh and a lot of CA to get the parts together. thanks Uwe PS: The front wheel well is wrong just like on almost any other kit...only Acydemy got it sort of right! CP on the left... what am I looking for exactly? The curve of the ceiling? The shape? The location? The details? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted February 19, 2025 Share Posted February 19, 2025 It seems like I may have one of the few remaining untouched Cutting Edge F-86 Seamless Intakes left in captivity. Out of curiosity, what color would it have been? Looking to put it in the Flight Systesm N86FS build up. Cutting Edge cast these with resin, then put them into a pressure vessel to reduce the bubbles. When they cured, they used high pressure air sprayed into the mold to extract it. The parts literally popped out of the molds. that's how they, and others, were able to case these long intakes. I suppose today someone could scan the part and them print it with liquid resin. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anj4de Posted February 20, 2025 Share Posted February 20, 2025 (edited) On 2/19/2025 at 8:41 AM, Bozothenutter said: what am I looking for exactly? The curve of the ceiling? The shape? The location? The details? Hello... Ok..this will be a bit longer. So, after starting the CP -A and running into the fit issues I was getting a bit frustrated. So I went to the basement and got that Acaemy kit that I had for years. A quick build up to the same stage as the CP one I thought. Cockpit nice, not quite as detailed as CP but good. Parts fit very good as to be expected from Academy. Deails nice and crisp. Parts break down conservative and easy to build. Then I looked at the front wheel well and discovered the a-symethry of it. I checked on pictures and detected tha the front gear door on the real thing also is not in the middle between the landing lights. So here some pics... Edited February 20, 2025 by anj4de Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anj4de Posted February 20, 2025 Share Posted February 20, 2025 ...so I was looking for pictures of the wheel well itself and could not find any. Then last Sunday I decided that I wanted too know what is going on. I drove over to a local museum here near Munich and checked out the real thing. And yes, Academy is correct and CP and Airfix are not. Here the proof. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bozothenutter Posted February 20, 2025 Share Posted February 20, 2025 2 hours ago, anj4de said: ...so I was looking for pictures of the wheel well itself and could not find any. Then last Sunday I decided that I wanted too know what is going on. I drove over to a local museum here near Munich and checked out the real thing. And yes, Academy is correct and CP and Airfix are not. Here the proof. That is an absolutely cool discovery! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted February 20, 2025 Share Posted February 20, 2025 Wow, very interesting! Thanks for sharing! Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BWDenver Posted February 21, 2025 Share Posted February 21, 2025 3 hours ago, Bozothenutter said: That is an absolutely cool discovery! The shots are more than welcome, but by how much it the CP and Airfix kit "off"? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bozothenutter Posted February 21, 2025 Share Posted February 21, 2025 7 hours ago, BWDenver said: The shots are more than welcome, but by how much it the CP and Airfix kit "off"? 0.5mm each side.....small, but visible. I went by the ruler 120mm+170mm= 290mm/2=145mm/48=3.02mm 120mm/48=2.5mm 170/48=3.54mm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
anj4de Posted February 21, 2025 Share Posted February 21, 2025 yes...1mm more on the right side it should be... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted February 21, 2025 Author Share Posted February 21, 2025 (edited) The CP nose gear has the correct offset. EDIT: the 1/72 kit does - see image. I highlighted this to CP but I guess it was too late to make it to the 1/48. It's an easy fix for those so inclined 🙂 Edited February 21, 2025 by Sabrejet Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GeneK Posted February 25, 2025 Share Posted February 25, 2025 (edited) On 2/21/2025 at 10:02 AM, Sabrejet said: EDIT: the 1/72 kit does [have the correct offset] - see image. I highlighted this to CP but I guess it was too late to make it to the 1/48. It's an easy fix for those so inclined 🙂 Just one more thing for which to thank you, Duncan. What is the reason for the offset? Gene K Edited February 25, 2025 by GeneK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sabrejet Posted February 25, 2025 Author Share Posted February 25, 2025 28 minutes ago, GeneK said: Just one more thing for which to thank you, Duncan. What is the reason for the offset? Gene K I think it's worked backwards from the need to have the set size of wheel sitting against the nose well when retracted and cocked 90 degrees. This then places the NLG main fitting at an offset. I haven't really looked at the geometry and there doesn't seem to be any documentation to explain it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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