dai phan Posted May 13 Share Posted May 13 (edited) Hi all, I used AK EM for the first time over the weekend. I primed the model with Mr Surfacer black 1500 then applied Polished Aluminum. Even many hours of drying time, the paint was so fragile that even with cotton gloved hands, blemishes start to appear all over the model. AK website says you can polish with a cloth for better shine after few minutes but in my case, simply not possible!!! I wonder if I did something wrong along the way? The paint looks great sprayed at multiple light coats at 15 PSI. I applied Intermediate Gauzy Agent but as soon as I handle the model paint starts coming off. Spent a whole day yesterday spot painting and now the model is untouchable although completely dry. Dai Edited May 13 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Curt B Posted May 16 Share Posted May 16 dai, wish I could help you. I'm a huge fan of the AK Xtreme Metal paints, and I have never experienced what you have encountered. However, I've never yet used Mr. Surfacer as a primer, though I have some. My primer of choice is Badger Stynylrez, and that's what i've used under the Xtreme Metal paints with no problem. Best of luck solving your problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted May 16 Author Share Posted May 16 11 hours ago, Curt B said: dai, wish I could help you. I'm a huge fan of the AK Xtreme Metal paints, and I have never experienced what you have encountered. However, I've never yet used Mr. Surfacer as a primer, though I have some. My primer of choice is Badger Stynylrez, and that's what i've used under the Xtreme Metal paints with no problem. Best of luck solving your problem. I used to use Stynylzer but I find to have tip clogs too often so I changed to 1500. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 Zero issues with these paints. I love 'em. Dry fast and extremely durable. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted May 18 Author Share Posted May 18 5 hours ago, 11bee said: Zero issues with these paints. I love 'em. Dry fast and extremely durable. What primer did you use? Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 On 5/18/2024 at 3:56 AM, dai phan said: What primer did you use? Dai LOL... primer? Who needs primer??? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ridinshotgun Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 58 minutes ago, 11bee said: LOL... primer? Who needs primer??? Well he clearly said he used mr. surfacer 1500 in his original post. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamster Volant Posted May 19 Share Posted May 19 (edited) I wonder what could be the culprit... For example for the Sabre here I did the same as you did: - MrSurfacer 1500 black, diluted about 70% with Self Levelling Thinner - Let it dry for about 24h - XTrem Metal Aluminium straight from the bottle; can't say about the pressure, the regulator on the compressor says 12Psi but I always use the mac valve on my airbrush to drop down the airflow... - Let it dry about a week (mostly because I can model only during the week-ends...) - Gauzy Shine Enhancer for the gloss before painting the other colours, more gloss before applying decals and Lucky Varnish Satin after. None of those react with another, and all applied in thin layers, with a thorough shaking before use... Oh, and I have an airbrush dedicated to metallics, the other one is used for everything else (Procon PS270 and Fengda FE180K) Edited May 19 by Hamster Volant Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted May 20 Author Share Posted May 20 5 hours ago, Hamster Volant said: I wonder what could be the culprit... For example for the Sabre here I did the same as you did: - MrSurfacer 1500 black, diluted about 70% with Self Levelling Thinner - Let it dry for about 24h - XTrem Metal Aluminium straight from the bottle; can't say about the pressure, the regulator on the compressor says 12Psi but I always use the mac valve on my airbrush to drop down the airflow... - Let it dry about a week (mostly because I can model only during the week-ends...) - Gauzy Shine Enhancer for the gloss before painting the other colours, more gloss before applying decals and Lucky Varnish Satin after. None of those react with another, and all applied in thin layers, with a thorough shaking before use... Oh, and I have an airbrush dedicated to metallics, the other one is used for everything else (Procon PS270 and Fengda FE180K) Beautiful bird. I simply find the AK paint too fragile and I likely will not use it again. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lockheed2004 Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 Get some plastic spoons to use as test articles and run trials. You might find the issue is only specific to the polished aluminum. I’ve used most of the AK metallic paints, always over Mr surfacer 1000, and never encountered an issue with them rubbing off. The intermediate gauzy agent is a top coat, it should also dry quickly. AK is pretty robust paint, general handling shouldn’t have the paint separating from the model. You’ve got something going on with your setup or application process. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CFster Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 Only Xtreme paint I ever tried was Chrome, and the stuff would rub off with a finger. Switched to Mr. SuperMetallic SM206 and I could mask over that stuff in an hour. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted May 20 Author Share Posted May 20 8 hours ago, CFster said: Only Xtreme paint I ever tried was Chrome, and the stuff would rub off with a finger. Switched to Mr. SuperMetallic SM206 and I could mask over that stuff in an hour. I use SM 201. Dries very fast and can be masked in 1 hour. Can withstand brutal pulls of heavy tacked masks! Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted May 20 Author Share Posted May 20 (edited) 17 hours ago, Hamster Volant said: I wonder what could be the culprit... For example for the Sabre here I did the same as you did: - MrSurfacer 1500 black, diluted about 70% with Self Levelling Thinner - Let it dry for about 24h - XTrem Metal Aluminium straight from the bottle; can't say about the pressure, the regulator on the compressor says 12Psi but I always use the mac valve on my airbrush to drop down the airflow... - Let it dry about a week (mostly because I can model only during the week-ends...) - Gauzy Shine Enhancer for the gloss before painting the other colours, more gloss before applying decals and Lucky Varnish Satin after. None of those react with another, and all applied in thin layers, with a thorough shaking before use... Oh, and I have an airbrush dedicated to metallics, the other one is used for everything else (Procon PS270 and Fengda FE180K) Here is mine. What scale and kit is that? Dai Edited May 20 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hamster Volant Posted May 20 Share Posted May 20 A really old one that was languishing in my stash for the last 30+ years and that I finally decided to build... Hobbycraft (Canada) 1/72 Canadair Sabre Mk6 (The "Golden Centenaires" boxing, but the decals were shot so I used old Heller decals) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mike_45 Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 Another thing to consider...are you painting it in a high humidity area? I noticed that on Alclad (yes I am able to read and know this is AK paint) that before my garage was HVAC'ed it would take a very long time to dry, but now, far faster. Especially with their primer. I would think it would dry better in a more controlled environment vs leaving in a garage. For whats it worth I treat any NMF finish aircraft I paint like its glass. Even gone so far as when handling when applying decals I will wear gloves so skin oils dont blemish it. I try and do this when no one else is at the house so I dont get laughed at 🙂 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted June 21 Author Share Posted June 21 (edited) Hello all, A builder on ARC built a F-86D and he used AK Extreme Metal over polished bare plastic. He comments on how tough the AK stuff is. He said he tried to pull off the paint layer with masking tape but to no avail. In my hands the AK paint just keep coming off leaving nasty blemishes all over. I applied over Mr Surfacer 1500. What gives ? Dai Edited June 21 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted July 8 Author Share Posted July 8 Hello all, I will try using Badger black primer then spray polished aluminum to see if the problem persists. Yesterday as I started to assemble the main parts on my 86D, the paint from the slats start to be rubbed off exposing the black 1500 primer. As such I had to repaint with Mr Color silver. I think this could be a problem isolated to the polished aluminum. People on the Net rave about how robust the Extreme Metal is. One person tried to peel of the paint with high tack masking tape and could not do it. In my case the paint just fall off the primer. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cruiz Posted July 12 Share Posted July 12 Hello, Dai I'm following your progress on this issue; I plan to use the X-treme metallics on a future project, so I'm taking some considerations beforehand that might be useful to you. These are enamel paints and might take days to fully cure, depending on application and ambient factors. I consider enamel paints somewhat "hot," so any underlying coat should be fully cured to prevent it from reacting with it. Enamels could adhere well to bare plastic, eliminating, in some cases, the need for a primer and taking advantage of a well-polished surface to minimize texture. I don't know yet if they could or need to be thinned, but in that case, I'll be cautious with the selection to avoid adverse reactions. The above are only my ideas based on previous experience with Model Master enamels when airbrushing my models many years ago. Regards Carlos Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sebastijan Posted July 18 Share Posted July 18 On 7/12/2024 at 5:39 AM, cruiz said: Hello, Dai I'm following your progress on this issue; I plan to use the X-treme metallics on a future project, so I'm taking some considerations beforehand that might be useful to you. These are enamel paints and might take days to fully cure, depending on application and ambient factors. I consider enamel paints somewhat "hot," so any underlying coat should be fully cured to prevent it from reacting with it. Enamels could adhere well to bare plastic, eliminating, in some cases, the need for a primer and taking advantage of a well-polished surface to minimize texture. I don't know yet if they could or need to be thinned, but in that case, I'll be cautious with the selection to avoid adverse reactions. The above are only my ideas based on previous experience with Model Master enamels when airbrushing my models many years ago. Regards Carlos These are not enamel paints but lacquers. Enamel pigments with lacquer base to be precise. Unfortunately I can't be much help, but from my few experiences in the past couple of months, I haven't noticed any problem with durability (masking or weathering) and I am also using Mr Surfacer as primer. It is true, though, I haven't used Polished Alu, but a normal one. Maybe these paints are like Alclad's Hi-Shine line more prone to rubbing off? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted July 20 Share Posted July 20 I second the above. I've used most of their paints, extremely durable and they dry quickly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CFster Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 On 7/18/2024 at 8:27 AM, Sebastijan said: These are not enamel paints but lacquers. Enamel pigments with lacquer base to be precise. Unfortunately I can't be much help, but from my few experiences in the past couple of months, I haven't noticed any problem with durability (masking or weathering) and I am also using Mr Surfacer as primer. It is true, though, I haven't used Polished Alu, but a normal one. Maybe these paints are like Alclad's Hi-Shine line more prone to rubbing off? They changed from enamel to lacquer formulation last year. Also, what the heck is an “enamel pigment”. Are you referring to the alkyd binder? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted July 31 Author Share Posted July 31 (edited) On 7/20/2024 at 9:44 AM, 11bee said: I second the above. I've used most of their paints, extremely durable and they dry quickly. Maybe my problem is only isolated to Polished Aluminum? There are reports of people trying to rip the paint off but could not. I used cotton gloves and in 5 minutes the gloves turn silver! Dai Edited July 31 by dai phan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cruiz Posted September 18 Share Posted September 18 These past months, I have been able to get some Xtreme Metal paints from local sources; of 13 bottles, one is marked as enamel, and the rest are lacquers. Could the behavior be related to the type of paint? I'll try to test some and share my results when I have a chance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dai phan Posted September 30 Author Share Posted September 30 On 9/17/2024 at 9:38 PM, cruiz said: These past months, I have been able to get some Xtreme Metal paints from local sources; of 13 bottles, one is marked as enamel, and the rest are lacquers. Could the behavior be related to the type of paint? I'll try to test some and share my results when I have a chance. I have tried polished aluminum over primed and unprimed surfaces. 2 weeks to dry. Once handled the cotton gloves got silver paints everywhere. In much contrast where people tried to rip the paint off high high tack tape and simply could not. Dai Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.