Vallejo Problems Question

[SpacecraftGuy]

Just sat down to re-start a whole pile of projects dormant since the autumn. It was supposed to be an easy start - catch up on airbrushing many, many parts. Starting with chromate green. Any other paint I use, enamels, Tamiya acrylics, even my first experience with Alclad 2 last aurumn - they all work! 

 

So. Vallejo Air  chromate green. Clean airbrush. Ran Vallejo cleaner through it before I started. Blew a beautiful stream of cleaner till a couple cups ran dry. Shook the bottle well. Put a bit in the cup. Sprayed gobbily and clogged. Celaned the airbrush. Thinned the Valljo. Clogged. Cleaned. More thinner. Clogged. Cleaned again and again, alternating thinner till the Vallejo was translucent. Of course, that sprayed through perfectly. Also puddled on the model. Easy to just wipe it all off though. 

 

I always run ionto this with Vallejo. Does anyone here have any idea what could be going wrong with this paint? Is it that the stuff is just so old by the time it sells here that it's decomposing? 

 

I would like to use Vallejo as other people do and it seems to work for them. Also they have a huge selection of colors. 

 

But what is with Vallejo Air?? I do have better luck airbrushing their non-air paints, tho' little sucess with hand brushing them. Any suggestions?

 

Oh, where oh is Model Master... My decades old remainders still airbrush beautifully. 

[SpacecraftGuy]

The other model shop in town sells Mission Models paints. Just read about them and the site quotes: 

"Their formula is triple pigmented and does not include any additional thinners or reducers which in time can cause a break down of the paint and diminish shelf life and quality.

"Because the paint is triple pigmented and ultra fine you will find that it offers superior and beautiful coverage utilizing thin coats from the airbrush."

 

Perhaps that's my problem with the Model Air. They are pre-thinned and probably old even before I buy them. I have sucessfully airbrushed regular Vallejo, tho' it still is my last choice in terms of ease of painting and durablility of finish. Will head to the shop tomorrow and try the Mission paint. With luck, it will be worth the $8?? If it has a decent shelf life, the one bottle could be a lifetime supply. How often do you need chromate green? 

[Geoff M]

Here is a link to an ARC thread about Mission Models Paints.  

[Chuck1945]

I don’t use Vallejo often preferring the acrylic lacquers from Gunze, MRP, and others but when I do spray Vallejo I use a cocktail mix for thinning. There is a YouTube video here somewhere that explains it better, but basically the thinning mixture is approx 70% Flow Improver, 10% thinner and 20% retarder - all from Vallejo. Never tried Mission Models paint, read too many stories about problems with them.

[Bob Beary]

Link on how to airbrush Vallejo paints...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYyfKPouFCQ

 

Bob

[SpacecraftGuy]

That is a hilarious video. He's using a mixture of 3 different Vallejo additves in order to get the VallejoAir, which is supposed to be a paint formulated for use With an airbrush, to work with an airbrush. I do admire his dedication. Sound like he spent a lot of time figuring this out. Why, I'm not sure.  Most people would just look for something else that works. I'm doing two surfaces each about the size of a mass market paperback. How long would that take to do using the narrow spray width he uses I wonder? 

 

But he does prove that it is possible to airbrush using VallejoAir. 

 

One irony I have with this is that I haven't had nearly the problems airbrushing regular Vallejo as I have with their formulated-for-airbrush paints. Unfortunately, some of the colors I'd like to use are only available in Air. Found the color I need, unfortunaltely (see above) by Mission Models. But I also discovered that the shop[ sells the full range of Mr. Color. Not quite the color I wanted but I'll settle for it if I can't make the Mission Possible.  

 

 

 

[SpacecraftGuy]

Okay, however many mintues have passed since last post. Started by spraying the Mission straight from the bottle. Went on perfectly and evenly. 

 

Part of some modeller's problems with certain paint might be their airbrushes. I used my 40 year old Badger 200 to spray the bomb bays of AMP's North American L.R.V. (a pretty cool kit if you're into oddball spacecraft).  I have Paasche and Iwata airbrushes, too, but my 200 would spray sand. Airbrushes were never designed to spray model paints. They were designed to spray artists paints and inks. Model paints are way closer to sand than ink. The better the airbrush, the more trouble it'll have with many model paints or broad coverage. 

 

I'm not an instant convert to Mission yet. First I have to figure out what the heck I can use to clean the airbrush. Whenever I use a new paint, I'm reminded of the Gahan Wilson cartoon of the boy on the corner selling lemonaide for 5 cents a cup, and the other boy around the corner selling the choking man the antidote for $5 a cup.  Same with model paints. First you innocently buy the new paint. They they try to sell you all the thinners, cleaners, flow improvers, enhancers, etc. to make them work.

 

Didn't bother to sand or dust the remains of the Vallejo from the parts below before I tested. I'll sand and dust before I paint them properly.  

 

 

Edited August 3 by SpacecraftGuy

[airmechaja]

Best thing I ever did with Vallejo Air paint was to line a garbage can with them and stuff it in the dumpster! 🤣 Life is too short to mess with the concoction of making a thinner that makes a certain paint flow. Tamiya acrylics are the answer for me.

[Rando]

I haven't tried Vallejo Air, but that's because I mainly hear negative experiences with them. I didn't like Mission Models much either, my experience was too inconsistent, and found they were complicated to use. I switched to Tamiya and Gunze acrylics and haven't looked back.

Edited August 5 by Rando

[ulvdemon]

I use Vallejo products with no issues.  I have found that you just need to thin as needed.  Vallejo Air takes a couple of a drop or two of thinner.  more if you are intentionally trying to make the paints very thin so that you can layer the results.  If you are using Vallejo Model Color, you need to at least do a 1 for 1 paint to thinner.  Since that paint is meant for hand brushing, not airbrushing.  The added bonus for me with Vallejo is the lack of smells that I get with lacquers and enamels.

[FalconFan24]

On 7/31/2024 at 3:18 PM, SpacecraftGuy said:

Just sat down to re-start a whole pile of projects dormant since the autumn. It was supposed to be an easy start - catch up on airbrushing many, many parts. Starting with chromate green. Any other paint I use, enamels, Tamiya acrylics, even my first experience with Alclad 2 last aurumn - they all work! 

 

So. Vallejo Air  chromate green. Clean airbrush. Ran Vallejo cleaner through it before I started. Blew a beautiful stream of cleaner till a couple cups ran dry. Shook the bottle well. Put a bit in the cup. Sprayed gobbily and clogged. Celaned the airbrush. Thinned the Valljo. Clogged. Cleaned. More thinner. Clogged. Cleaned again and again, alternating thinner till the Vallejo was translucent. Of course, that sprayed through perfectly. Also puddled on the model. Easy to just wipe it all off though. 

 

I always run ionto this with Vallejo. Does anyone here have any idea what could be going wrong with this paint? Is it that the stuff is just so old by the time it sells here that it's decomposing? 

 

I would like to use Vallejo as other people do and it seems to work for them. Also they have a huge selection of colors. 

 

But what is with Vallejo Air?? I do have better luck airbrushing their non-air paints, tho' little sucess with hand brushing them. Any suggestions?

 

Oh, where oh is Model Master... My decades old remainders still airbrush beautifully. 

Hey Spacecraftguy

 

The video on how to airbrush Vallejo paints, that is my video. I definitely understand your frustration with acrylics (in particular Vallejo). I started off with lacquers and I love lacquers....but due to health issues I had to switch over. Modeling is situational, if I was in the situation where I could go back to lacquers....I probably would. Plus I have roommates and pets, so I have to be respectful. Yet at the same time, I want to continue enjoying my hobby. 

 

I think the first issue people have with acrylics is they approach them with lacquer/enamel mindset. You cannot blast acrylics on, you have to build up the effect. But this is actually a good thing as it will allow you to create different effects. You have to shake the hell out of them. But If you can get over this learning curve, you will find that acrylics are just as easy to use as other paint. 

 

Now as far as my formula mixture and why you need something that has three components to it to make Vallejo work. You actually don't.....you can get away just using flow improver or just flow improver and thinner. The formula i created was with the help of professional artists  based on they make acrylics stronger. The artist community use primarily acrylic paints and they add in additives to make the paints function how they want and for their needs. Another add bonus is that it makes the paint more resilient (see my live demo where I bang the painted spoon and tape over the primer). I just created a formula better suited for airbrushing purposes and gives you continuous performance without tip drying. 

 

I like to use this analogy, think of acrylics like a stick shift car. It is annoying but once you get over the hump of having to deal gas/brake/clutch....you will find it works great. 

 

I will be doing a live facebook stream on my group, where I will paint an entire 1/48 Bf-109E using Vallejo acrylics. I hope you can join and watch. It might help to see how easy acrylics are. 

[FalconFan24]

On 8/3/2024 at 3:16 PM, SpacecraftGuy said:

Okay, however many mintues have passed since last post. Started by spraying the Mission straight from the bottle. Went on perfectly and evenly. 

 

Part of some modeller's problems with certain paint might be their airbrushes. I used my 40 year old Badger 200 to spray the bomb bays of AMP's North American L.R.V. (a pretty cool kit if you're into oddball spacecraft).  I have Paasche and Iwata airbrushes, too, but my 200 would spray sand. Airbrushes were never designed to spray model paints. They were designed to spray artists paints and inks. Model paints are way closer to sand than ink. The better the airbrush, the more trouble it'll have with many model paints or broad coverage. 

 

I'm not an instant convert to Mission yet. First I have to figure out what the heck I can use to clean the airbrush. Whenever I use a new paint, I'm reminded of the Gahan Wilson cartoon of the boy on the corner selling lemonaide for 5 cents a cup, and the other boy around the corner selling the choking man the antidote for $5 a cup.  Same with model paints. First you innocently buy the new paint. They they try to sell you all the thinners, cleaners, flow improvers, enhancers, etc. to make them work.

 

Didn't bother to sand or dust the remains of the Vallejo from the parts below before I tested. I'll sand and dust before I paint them properly.  

 

 

 

Would respectfully disagree that airbrushes will have issues airbrushing model paints, especially if they are higher end. I have over 50 airbrushes (former professional airbrush artist). If you see my video/YouTube channel I mostly use my Harder & Steenbeck (which are not cheap at all and definitely the higher end of airbrush world) and have no issues what so ever in over 10 years of having switched to acrylics. 

 

One thing I wanted to point out, you can use my thinner mixture on Mission Models and get fantastic results. But if you don't want to do that, there is a off the shelf thinner that works great with mission models (I can't recall the name of the top of head) and you just mix it straight 50/50 and it works. I will try to find it and share it with you. 

[Winnie]

I use @FalconFan24's mix for airbrushing Vallejo Model Air, and it removes all problems. the cost of the liquids were minimal, and a 10ml bottle lasts a loong time, and you'll have enough for almost a lifetime of painting. It is very uncomplicated to make as well. 10 drops, then 60/40 of the liquids. super easy.

 

My only gripe with the Vallejo model air is that they take a while to cure, and the Tamiya and AK Lacquers are touch dry almost immediately.

 

Cheers

H.