One-Oh-Four Posted July 13, 2025 Share Posted July 13, 2025 I noticed that my ClearProp F-86A-5 has the engine face with a round dome. (Photo from HS review) (ClearProp instructions) All Sabre J47’s that I have seen have a cone that looks more like a bird’s beak. Which seems logical when looking at the intake tract. (Plastic Models On The Internet - cyberplasticmodeler.blogspot.com) A quick search on the internet showed J47’s with more traditional cones but were they used as such in early F-86’s? Was “the beak” a later development/block of the J47? ( NASM) (Wikimedia) (HistoryNet - GE’s Trailblazing J47 by Don Bedwell 27-05-2017) Thanks for your thoughts on this! Cheers, Erik. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted July 13, 2025 Share Posted July 13, 2025 (edited) Hi Erik, I did a bit of research for my Clear Prop F-86A (CP 4824) kit both on the aircraft and its engine. But you can say I am only an East European so why should I know anything about it. All I can do is share my views, what I have found. From what I can see the J-47 was an engine used in many different aircraft (apart from the F-86) and accordingly the “nose cone” was so to say “customized” for the particular plane depending on requirements. There were ones with really long round dome, others had a shorter round dome like the one illustrated on the second photo above. As far as I can tell in the F-86 the “birds beak” version was used. There are all sorts of J-47 dash this and that version, I am sure the engine experts will comment on this, which belongs where. But it is interesting that early service aircraft had a FOD protection grill ring on the front of the engine. With time it was deleted. For my kit I did make both the beak and the protector grill and cast few resin copies for myself. How much of it is visible on a finished kit? Basically nothing, unless you want to do a diorama with engine maintenance like in the photos above. As for Clear Prop they did realize and acknowledge the mistake and are giving the correct “beak” version with the 72nd scale version of the F-86A kit (CP 72054). For the 48th scale kit it was far too late in development so the sprues are the same for the A versions with round domes. I am sure they will think of something for later Sabre kits to correct this. Best regards Gabor Edited July 13, 2025 by ya-gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Ben Brown Posted July 13, 2025 Share Posted July 13, 2025 A correct engine front would be a perfect thing for Reskit to release. Ben Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted July 13, 2025 Share Posted July 13, 2025 I am sure someone will make it if they want to. Even though there is almost nothing visible of it this is the set I made for my kits. Turned some parts and reproduced it in resin. (as well as some other extras . . . ) : ) : ) This is the fix two part FOD grill from some of those very early Korea jets. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JeffreyK Posted July 15, 2025 Share Posted July 15, 2025 I already have the shape in CAD, developed as part of my FJ-2 Fury set. I was debating if anyone besides myself would be interested in correcting this and actually buy a set… Judging by the “success” of most of my recent products I thought maybe 2-3 people thus have so far decided against it… But never say never… J Quote Link to post Share on other sites
One-Oh-Four Posted July 16, 2025 Author Share Posted July 16, 2025 Just now, ya-gabor said: Hi Erik, I did a bit of research for my Clear Prop F-86A (CP 4824) kit both on the aircraft and its engine. But you can say I am only an East European so why should I know anything about it. All I can do is share my views, what I have found. From what I can see the J-47 was an engine used in many different aircraft (apart from the F-86) and accordingly the “nose cone” was so to say “customized” for the particular plane depending on requirements. There were ones with really long round dome, others had a shorter round dome like the one illustrated on the second photo above. As far as I can tell in the F-86 the “birds beak” version was used. There are all sorts of J-47 dash this and that version, I am sure the engine experts will comment on this, which belongs where. But it is interesting that early service aircraft had a FOD protection grill ring on the front of the engine. With time it was deleted. For my kit I did make both the beak and the protector grill and cast few resin copies for myself. How much of it is visible on a finished kit? Basically nothing, unless you want to do a diorama with engine maintenance like in the photos above. As for Clear Prop they did realize and acknowledge the mistake and are giving the correct “beak” version with the 72nd scale version of the F-86A kit (CP 72054). For the 48th scale kit it was far too late in development so the sprues are the same for the A versions with round domes. I am sure they will think of something for later Sabre kits to correct this. Best regards Gabor Sorry for my delayed reaction, ADHD and procrastination hit again... Thanks for your insights! The fact that you're from a somewhat more Eastern part of Europe than I am has no bearing on my view on knowledge collected by people. If I held such views I would dismiss almost everything that's written on j-aircraft because the knowledge there was collected by Western people instead of written by Japanese.... Besides, I love the things you've shared about -especially- the MiG-21 over the years. The more information about the real object vs. the accuracy of the model I have, the better it is. Then I can decide for myself if I care enough to try to incorporate something in a model or not! So thanks again for speaking out! Just now, Ben Brown said: A correct engine front would be a perfect thing for Reskit to release. Ben Or Hypersonic, as he already has the CAD-file! Just now, ya-gabor said: I am sure someone will make it if they want to. Even though there is almost nothing visible of it this is the set I made for my kits. Turned some parts and reproduced it in resin. (as well as some other extras . . . ) : ) : ) This is the fix two part FOD grill from some of those very early Korea jets. Best regards Gabor Nice! I asked my eldest son, who is a 3D-draughtsman if he can make a file for the FOD-grid. I'll be using the Hasegawa engine face to make a resin beak to put on top of that. Maybe the Hasegawa beak isn't exactly the right shape, looks like it's a bit too skinny?... Anyway, seeing as one would have to shine a light into the air intake to see all it's glory, it's good enough for me, for now! Just now, JeffreyK said: I already have the shape in CAD, developed as part of my FJ-2 Fury set. I was debating if anyone besides myself would be interested in correcting this and actually buy a set… Judging by the “success” of most of my recent products I thought maybe 2-3 people thus have so far decided against it… But never say never… J Oh, please do! I'll buy one! This F-86A will be an early stateside model, so it'll have to have the FOD-screen. I plan on a Korean F-86A too, your engine face would save me some time and swear-words trying to neatly graft the beak onto the engine face... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
One-Oh-Four Posted July 16, 2025 Author Share Posted July 16, 2025 For those who are looking for this sort of J47 detail in the future, using the Search-function: I found a photo of a J47 with a fixed FOD-screen: photo from the site of: https://www.museomotori.unipa.it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted July 16, 2025 Share Posted July 16, 2025 Hi Erik, Yes, the one in Italy is a perfect example of that early fixed FOD grill!!! On later engine versions the screen was devided into sections and they were retractable (in sections) into the side wall. I am very tempted to have the engine separately just to show this design on my Clear Prop! kit. A bit of surgery . . . cut the airframe in two, do the internal details . . . For my version the "beak" was turned separately from the FOD grill so I have the option of using either of them on their own if needed. So in the end it could be that will have to have the J47 on a stand next to the kit. Less surgery on the kit, but more scratch building of a J47 engine from zero. : ) : ) : ) and of course also the cart for it. But if doing the J47 separately on a stand I will have to do the crane also . . . but then of course a PSP base also put together from photoetch pieces . . . A never ending story . . . : ) : ) : ) which all started from that FOD grill. : ) : ) Fun, fun, fun. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
One-Oh-Four Posted July 17, 2025 Author Share Posted July 17, 2025 Hahaha, I wish you good luck! Hopefully you’ll do an In Progress thread on your adventure…! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted July 17, 2025 Share Posted July 17, 2025 (edited) 54 minutes ago, One-Oh-Four said: Hahaha, I wish you good luck! Hopefully you’ll do an In Progress thread on your adventure…! : ) : ) : ) There are too many things to do and a lot of projects. No kit building for the past 4-5 months. There are some more important things in life! One of them is my collection of ejection seats which takes away a lot of time and work. Also as a journalist doing a lot of research into different subjects and putting it all together for printed media. So for the moment unfortunately only time to do some research on the Clear Prop! F-86A and other kits. It is interesting to see that some modellers (mainly the ones in Czech Republic) consider kit building as a speed race, who gets first to the finish line. They in the past DEMANDED results and developments as if there was a tight deadline for building a kit. I consider it more as a hobby! Where you do things for FUN!!!!!!!!! Isnt this what it should be?????? But will show developments when and if there are any. : ) : ) Best regards Gabor Edited July 17, 2025 by ya-gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon Krol Posted July 17, 2025 Share Posted July 17, 2025 The Academy F-86F has a nice J-47 in it. Hypersonic's FJ-2 Fury intake set's engine face would work. If you are a real masochist, the Dolphin Model resin/white metal/PE and metal rods and wire, J-47 kit was designed to drive a modeler right into a straight jacket. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted July 17, 2025 Share Posted July 17, 2025 So there alternative J47’s out on the market. Good news! But it all depends on what do you get kicks out from modelling. As far as I can see there are several very different categories of modellers today (with a lot of overlap between them of course). If simplified: * The “new generation” simply presses the ENTER button on the computer and follows how the 3D printer produces the final product. * There are some who build the kit as it is in a box or combines several kits to make a new version. * And the third category enjoys actually doing something with his own hands, creating something new from whatever is available. I get kicks out of creating things, so possibly it will be a J47 made from scratch in the end, just as everything else. After all it is a cylindrical shape, then many cylindrical pieces for the burners and another cylindrical shape at the end and a cone for the exhaust. Put on all sorts of wires and plastic strips and you have a J47. : ) : ) : ) Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillS Posted July 18, 2025 Share Posted July 18, 2025 In AF logo that’s called a “donkey dick” or “ dog pecker”. Same same on the ‘101. Let’s keep our nomenclature straight! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RichB63 Posted July 18, 2025 Share Posted July 18, 2025 “Proboscis” in zoological terms 🤥 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
One-Oh-Four Posted July 18, 2025 Author Share Posted July 18, 2025 6 hours ago, BillS said: In AF logo that’s called a “donkey dick” or “ dog pecker”. Same same on the ‘101. Let’s keep our nomenclature straight! 😄 I pity both the donkey with a dog-sized proboscis and the dog with a donkey-sized proboscis… 🫢 To keep it in zoological terms…. 😇 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted July 18, 2025 Share Posted July 18, 2025 Here is a view of the interior green from a period Kodachrome photo. OK it is not a 100% match but as close as you can get. And a photo of both versions of the J47, one with FOG grid and one next to it without. It was posted here somewhere on ARC before, but it connects to the subject of this topic. Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
One-Oh-Four Posted July 18, 2025 Author Share Posted July 18, 2025 (edited) Thanks, Gabor! And notice the scratches on the ID-band!… Edited July 18, 2025 by One-Oh-Four Zpelling misteke Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ya-gabor Posted July 18, 2025 Share Posted July 18, 2025 1 hour ago, One-Oh-Four said: Thanks, Gabor! And notice the scratches on the ID-band!… Hi Erik, Yes, there are some nice scratches there!!!!!!!! : ) : ) : ) Some of the “Spanish School” weathering specialist should take note from photos like this! How much “pre-shading” and “post-shading” do you see on the real aircraft like this one?????????????????????? : ) : ) : ) As for the internal green on Sabres, the “green” clothing of the technicians could serve as a kind of reference to compare with the internal green colour. There is always the “scale effect” also and simple visual looks. On a scale kit one always have to make adjustments to make it look similar to what there is on the period photos of the real aircraft. To select colour purely based on Federal Standard charts is not really the way. In my opinion. I can only envy those pilots in the Korean war where many of them were taking photos, and what is most important using quality slide films!!!!!!! Those photos are fantastic and a perfect opportunity to go back in time and have a closer look at what those real colours were like! Best regards Gabor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BillS Posted July 19, 2025 Share Posted July 19, 2025 Regarding the green. NAA did use a color like Dull Dark Green. It was also seen on the Hun particularly the speed brake and gear wells. Ben Brown, a Hun thought leader posted this: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jon Krol Posted July 19, 2025 Share Posted July 19, 2025 Looks like the old WWII Bronze Green to me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
One-Oh-Four Posted July 20, 2025 Author Share Posted July 20, 2025 Thanks guys! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
One-Oh-Four Posted July 20, 2025 Author Share Posted July 20, 2025 9 hours ago, Jon Krol said: Looks like the old WWII Bronze Green to me. IIRC Bronze Green was superseded by the use of Dull Dark Green in WWII. Both colors are in the same ballpark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.