Vajello paints.

[Cop]

i have heard nothing but good things when it comes to these paints and my local hobby shop has started to stock them. I really like the dropper style bottles and the ease at which you can clean up after using them.

However i am having a real problem using them with my airbrush (Badger 360). They constantly keep fouling the tip and clogging. I am using Vajello`s own thinner at the moment.

Does anybody have any secrets to prevent this ? I would like to move over to them but this is a major stumbling block for me. ( I`m in the UK so local product suggestions would be a great help.)

Thanks Cop.

[polybebber]

I've got 3 different Vallejo based paints:

Model Color: I think this is their basic acrylic color, most likely intented for use with a brush, not especially aircraft related colors

Aircraft Colors: Also acrylic, but intended for use in airbrushes and available in FS, RLM etc standard colors (bought them from Grand Phoenix)

Model Air: same as Aircraft Colors (bought them in Germany)

If you're using Model Color paints, I'm not sure if you can avoid this problem at all.

If you're using Aircraft Colors or Model Air paints, just skip the thinner. I had the same problems with an Evolution (Harder & Stenbeck) airbrush and was adviced to spray the paints straight from the bottle without thinner, using their thinner only to clean the airbrush. It worked, no more clogging. And the paints are absolutely wonderful.

Hopefully it'll work for you as well.

Lothar

[Cop]

Cheers for the quick response polybebber, unfortunately they are the model colors and this is the only range that I can get my hands on. Bugger !!!

Thanks Cop

[polybebber]

You have mail

Lothar

[madmike]

I posted a response in the other thread, regular Vallejo can be thinned with distilled water, methylated spirits and if drying too quickly, can be mixed with a little retarder (Vallejo make their own brand).

MikeJ

[skyraider]

I have no problem spraying the Model Color with my airbrush:

15psi and a 0.2mm needle, thinned to about 50-50 with vallejo thinner or alcohol.

skyraider

[Stephen]

i have heard nothing but good things when it comes to these paints and my local hobby shop has started to stock them. I really like the dropper style bottles and the ease at which you can clean up after using them.

However i am having a real problem using them with my airbrush (Badger 360). They constantly keep fouling the tip and clogging. I am using Vajello`s own thinner at the moment.

Does anybody have any secrets to prevent this ? I would like to move over to them but this is a major stumbling block for me. ( I`m in the UK so local product suggestions would be a great help.)

Thanks Cop.

Nigel,

I only brushpaint them but I do know that there's a retarder which is no 597 which is supposed to slow the drying time down.

HTH

Stephen

[Cop]

Cheers for all the tips ( no pun intended ) picked up some of the retarder today. I will give it a go tonight and see how works out.

Cop

[bru(no)]

I am adding a question to the tread: When you you this paint do you need to place first an primer layer or can I spray it directly on the degreased plastic?

Bruno

[madmike]

Always prime when using acrylic paints. This is particularly true with Vallejo paints. I find using Tamiya lacquer primer followed by the Vallejo gives a rock solid paintjob.

MikeJ

[yeehah1]

hey Guys:

I use Vajello too. I usually thin it with tap water and go with a 2:1 ratio. ( 2 paint to one water) You can also use isopropale alcohol ( not spelpt right, but it's used in those kits for cleaning cd's and dvd's)

Liam

[T-bone]

Always prime when using acrylic paints. This is particularly true with Vallejo paints.

With all due respect to your experience, but the use of the phrase "always prime before using acrylic paints" is not necessarily true. I realize that we are discussing Vallejo paints here and that I am quibling about a single word, but I don't usually prime prior to spraying Tamiya acrylic or MM acrylic paint (on a clean, dry and grease free model) and, as of yet, have not had any trouble with paint adhesion. I wait for the paint to dry thoroughly before handling and I will spray multiple thin layers instead of a single thick layer, so maybe that is the reason I have yet to see poor adhesion to the plastic after spraying Tamiya acrylic. It works in my hands that priming is generally not needed, but as is shown over and over in this forum and site, what works for one person, does not necessarily work for another.

[madmike]

Always prime when using acrylic paints. This is particularly true with Vallejo paints.

With all due respect to your experience, but the use of the phrase "always prime before using acrylic paints" is not necessarily true. I realize that we are discussing Vallejo paints here and that I am quibling about a single word, but I don't usually prime prior to spraying Tamiya acrylic or MM acrylic paint (on a clean, dry and grease free model) and, as of yet, have not had any trouble with paint adhesion. I wait for the paint to dry thoroughly before handling and I will spray multiple thin layers instead of a single thick layer, so maybe that is the reason I have yet to see poor adhesion to the plastic after spraying Tamiya acrylic. It works in my hands that priming is generally not needed, but as is shown over and over in this forum and site, what works for one person, does not necessarily work for another.

I think you are being a tad pedantic. Acrylic paints by their chemical nature are not hot enough to "grab" or etch into the plastic. A hotter primer will give you that firm foundation for subsequent paints.

I also prime and will always recommend priming for that reason and other reasons such as;

• seam checking - why spend time applying the final coats when priming reveals the problem beforehand?
  
• surface uniformity - filler, glued seams and differing materials all react differently to paint. Priming ensures a uniform surface before the final paint coats go on.
  

I find it easier to recommend priming as a precautionary measure so the possiblity of paint fragility is minimised. It is always better to be careful than to see a beautiful paint finish that took a lot of blood sweat and tears to achieve come away when the last areas are masked or from handling while decals are being applied.

I am happy that you do not need to prime, indeed it is personal choice. However even Tamiya paints will come away from plastic particularly when masked. True Acrylics like Vallejo (unlike Gunze or Tamiya) most always come away from bare plastic without a prime coat.

Your point about it working for you is a perfectly valid point but it will never stop me advising using a prime coat as the first step in painting a model with acrylics or even a BMF finish.

and happy modelling

MikeJ

[Stephen]

Always prime when using acrylic paints. This is particularly true with Vallejo paints.

With all due respect to your experience, but the use of the phrase "always prime before using acrylic paints" is not necessarily true. I realize that we are discussing Vallejo paints here and that I am quibling about a single word, but I don't usually prime prior to spraying Tamiya acrylic or MM acrylic paint (on a clean, dry and grease free model) and, as of yet, have not had any trouble with paint adhesion. I wait for the paint to dry thoroughly before handling and I will spray multiple thin layers instead of a single thick layer, so maybe that is the reason I have yet to see poor adhesion to the plastic after spraying Tamiya acrylic. It works in my hands that priming is generally not needed, but as is shown over and over in this forum and site, what works for one person, does not necessarily work for another.

I think you are being a tad pedantic. Acrylic paints by their chemical nature are not hot enough to "grab" or etch into the plastic. A hotter primer will give you that firm foundation for subsequent paints.

I also prime and will always recommend priming for that reason and other reasons such as;

• seam checking - why spend time applying the final coats when priming reveals the problem beforehand?
  
• surface uniformity - filler, glued seams and differing materials all react differently to paint. Priming ensures a uniform surface before the final paint coats go on.
  

I find it easier to recommend priming as a precautionary measure so the possiblity of paint fragility is minimised. It is always better to be careful than to see a beautiful paint finish that took a lot of blood sweat and tears to achieve come away when the last areas are masked or from handling while decals are being applied.

I am happy that you do not need to prime, indeed it is personal choice. However even Tamiya paints will come away from plastic particularly when masked. True Acrylics like Vallejo (unlike Gunze or Tamiya) most always come away from bare plastic without a prime coat.

Your point about it working for you is a perfectly valid point but it will never stop me advising using a prime coat as the first step in painting a model with acrylics or even a BMF finish.

and happy modelling

MikeJ

What he said

Stephen

[T-bone]

I am not contending the merits of the use of a primer as a base layer, when needed, and would not want anyones hard work to go for naught for any reason including a poor paint job. I occasionally use a primer layer for the reasons you (both) state -- most often when I am concerned with top color transparency. However and relative to the specific question in this thread regarding the need of a primer with Model Air colors, the Vallejo company states on their website (http://www.acrylicosvallejo.com/):

“Surfaces: Model Air performs exceptionally well on all surfaces. The adherence of the paint on plastic and resin models, steel and white metal, is extraordinary. A primer is usually not needed; if the object to be painted is very dark, a base coat of white or grey will help bring out the luminosity of the colours. "

I was contending the use of the word “always†and the lumping of all acrylic paints into one group. Furthermore, I offered my personal experience with Tamiya acrylics as an example were priming is not always needed.

I have only used model air acrylics on two models but, as one would guess, I did not prime either model. I did not detect any problem with paint transparency. However, in neither of these did I apply a mask over the paint so I can’t attest to damaging the paint during mask removal. Incidentally, I often mask over Tamiya acrylic and have not had a problem yet with damaging the paint. I do wait until the paint layer is thoroughly dry prior to handling or masking. I have had problems with MM acrylics lifting after masking.

I was not, in any way, shape, or form trying to be pedantic but I did take issue with the use of the word “always†in the previous statement.

[mrs madmike]

Ok I'm throwing my lot in here; and no it has nothing to do with being madmike's wife either!

Firstly it was not Mike who told me to use Vallejo paints... it was, in fact, a gentleman who works for our local hobby shop. Tony; the aforementioned gentleman; advised me to:

ALWAYS use a Primer.

Now before anyone goes getting themselves worked up let me just tell you that Tony is also a fully qualifed Chemist who can tell you exactly how to make your own super glue, the differences between Gunze, Tamiya Acrylic and Vallejo and the reason you should not use tap water to dilute your acrylics is because of the many different chemical properties and additives actually change the chemical compounds within the paint.

Tony has advised that the best way to dilute an acrylic paint is to use Distilled Water and also told me Model Air is only pre-thinned Standard Vallejo paint.

My 2c worth

LoriJ

[asvennevik]

If you are asking about Model Color I can't really answer. If on the other hand you are asking about Model Air Color then they are some of the best acrylics available. I thin with a few drops of tap water and spray with fairly high pressure +/- 25psi (1.7 bar so). I spray directly on well cleaned plastic. I see no need to use a primer - the paint sticks like glue and can be masked with Scotch tape.

Anders

[madmike]

As we say in Australia....

"Horses for Courses"

I won't stop recommending priming because simply put, it is a very important step to ensure a uniform surface to paint over and to allow checking of seams and joins.

I would rather prime a model and rectify faults and missed areas before mixing and laying down the first of the final coats. Practical and an important step? You bet it is!!

Priming is also an essential step when using Alcad and AS-12 BMF finishes for all the above reasons.

In MY experience (25+ years) acrylics are not as stable and rock solid over plastic as enamels and lacquer based paints such as humbrol and Modelmaster (Tamiya AS sprays) by their very nature. Actually, this is a positive as it makes the paints far more safer to use than the other solvent based paints. This is the main reason I made the switch 10 years ago and started using Tamiya then Aeromaster (Polyscale) and now Vallejo as well. Citadel paints have the same problem and do rub off when applied to bare plastic.

If you are happy not to prime then great, glad to see it is working for you and you are getting great results! Modelling is all about choice and we are certainly spoilt when it comes to the vast array of accessories, paints and techniques.

and happy modelling

MikeJ