payload inside a Chinook

[Mad Viper]

I have the RoG 1:72 Chinook kit and i thought it would be nice to place a humvee on the ramp like he is just coming out of the bird. But does a Humvee fit inside a Chinook?

[My Dad's Little Boy]

I've got a feeling that Humvee may be too wide at just over 7 feet - I may be wrong though because I'm not sure of the internal dimensions of the Chinook.

HTH (a bit)

Cheers

Jeff B)

[Spunk-Y]

I know the dutch mercedes jeeps fit inside the chinooks, but I don't think they are avaible in any scale, but for the dimensions of both you can check out fas.org they have good info about both

[Mandrake]

I have the RoG 1:72 Chinook kit and i thought it would be nice to place a humvee on the ramp like he is just coming out of the bird. But does a Humvee fit inside a Chinook?

Chinooks can only barely accomodate standard sized vehicles, so a Humvee would be physically impossible!

[Michael A.]

Once Upon A Time In Iraq

Two standard CH-47s landed in the night and were on the LZ for a long time, 20 -30 miutes. The next morning the parking lot had two new HUMMVs. They were the convirtable model with no roof and the windshields were in the down position.

I did not see the opertion but they were supposed to have arrived via CH-47. Perhaps additional researh will help confrm this.

Regards,

Michael A.

[Cadfael]

Description & Specifications (from the US Army Fact File)

The venerable twin-engine, tandem rotor Chinook helicopter has undergone numerous upgrades since the first CH-47A model was delivered to the Army for use in Vietnam. Beginning in 1982 and ending in 1994, all CH-47A, B and C models were upgraded to the CH-47D version, which remains the U.S. Army standard and features composite rotor blades, an improved electrical system, modularized hydraulics, triple cargo hooks, avionics and communication improvements, and more powerful engines that can handle a 19,500 lb load – nearly twice the Chinook’s original lift capacity. An upgrade program exists to remanufacture 300 of the current fleet of 425 CH-47D’s to the CH-47F standard. The MH-47E is the Special Forces variant of the Chinook and will be remanufactured to the MH-47G.

The Chinook’s cockpit accommodates two pilots and an observer. The communications suite includes jam resistant HF and UHF radio systems and the helicopter is equipped with an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) interrogator. Three machine guns can be mounted on the helicopter, two in the crew door on the starboard side and one window-mounted on the port side. Additionally, the helicopter is equipped with a suite of countermeasure systems, which could include one or more of the following: a missile approach warner, jammers, radar warner, and chaff and flare dispensers.

The Chinook has a triple hook system, which provides stability to large external loads or the capacity for multiple external loads. Large external loads such as 155mm howitzers can be transported at speeds up to 260km/h using the triple hook load configuration. Multiple external loads can be delivered to two or three separate destinations in one sortie.

The cabin provides 42 cubic meters of cargo space and 21 square meters of cargo floor area and can accommodate two HMMWVs (High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle) or a HMMWV together with 105mm howitzer and gun crew. The main cabin can hold up to 33 fully-equipped troops. For medical evacuation, the cabin can accommodate 24 litters (stretchers).

Ramp operations can be carried out on water using an optional power-down ramp and water dam configuration.

The Chinook is equipped with two T55-GA-714A turboshaft engines, which are pod-mounted on either side of the rear pylon under the rear rotor blades. The self-sealing fuel tanks are mounted in external fairings on the sides of the fuselage. The fixed tanks hold 1,030 gallons of fuel. Three additional fuel tanks can be carried in the cargo area. In-flight refueling can extend the range of the MH-47 helicopter.

The CH-47F upgrade program involves the installation of a new digital cockpit and modifications to the airframe to reduce vibration. The upgraded cockpit will provide future growth potential and will include a digital data bus that permits installation of enhanced communications and navigation equipment for improved situational awareness, mission performance, and survivability. Airframe structural modifications will reduce harmful vibrations, reducing operations and support (O&S) costs and improving crew endurance. Other airframe modifications will reduce by approximately 60% the time required for aircraft tear down and build-up after deployment on a C-5 or C-17. These modifications will significantly enhance the Chinook’s strategic deployment capability. First Unit Equipped (FUE) date for the CH-47F is September 2004.

A separate but complementary effort involves the installation of more powerful and reliable T55-GA-714A engines that improve fuel efficiency and enhance lift performance by approximately 3,900 lbs (enabling it to carry the M198 155mm towed howitzer). Installation of an improved crashworthy extended range fuel system (ERFS II) will enable Chinook self-deployment and extend the operational radius of all other missions. A program is also underway to reduce O&S costs through the joint development with the United Kingdom of a low-maintenance rotor hub.

[Koen L]

Chinooks can only barely accomodate standard sized vehicles, so a Humvee would be physically impossible!

I'd like to quote Ishthe47guy who was a crewchief on Chinooks: 'a standard soft top hummer will fit inside, although not by much. The side view mirrors have to be folded, the seats have to be up. You can see there is NO space left over on the sides, but there is plenty of room up front. You can put 2 hummers inside, but that will take up ALL the available cargo area, & the cargo ramp won't have enough room to close, so it would remain level for the flight .'

Quote comes from this topic: http://www.arcforums.com/forums/index.php?...topic=27517&hl=

Ish once posted some excellent pics to go with that but unfortunately they are no longer in the topic as you can see. Can you post them again perhaps Ish?

[mkimages]

I'll save him the trouble. Hope you don't mind, Ish. Here's the pic in question. Looks like it took a tub of Crisco but they got it in.

[Albert Moore]

Looks like it took a tub of Crisco but they got it in.

A tub of Crisco and a shoe-horn. Wow that's a tight fit.

[Mandrake]

I stand corrected!

[Rammy]

Looks like its 100x easier to simply airlift it :

[Mad Viper]

Thanks for the info and pic guys. I'm gonna load one up on the ramp just as he left the bird and the crew already placed the mirrors right and placed a machinegun on the roof.

[Ishthe47guy]

Hi fellas. Its been a while since I've even looked in this forum.

Thanks Koen for getting the information out there where it could set the record straight. BTW, I'm still a reluctant crewmember. I'm reluctant to give up my flight pay!

I'd also like to add that its very situational dependant whether we load the humvee internal or externally sling load it. If it is one our own hummers, it’s a toss up. The length of time it takes to prep a hummer for sling load can be much longer than the time it takes to drive it inside the a/c & chain it down, but that depends on the amount of bodies you have helping you. Recurring training requirements may make us sling load it. Also, anytime we sling load anything, a crewmember has to be monitoring the load at all times. This means lying on a seat cushion on the floor of the a/c, looking through the cargo hatch down at the load. Not fun on longer flights, or when its cold outside.

It the hummer belongs to another unit, & we’re just providing transportation, other factors come in to play. The supported unit is responsible for prepping & rigging the load. If they don’t have all the stuff, we can sometimes help them, because we have the final say on whether the load flies or not. I’ve seen several improperly secured items fly away during flight. In tactical situations, we’ve just fly to the pick-up zone, hook up, fly to the drop zone, release the load, & go on our way, having never landed .

If any of you are wondering if loads are ever dropped during flight for whatever reason, it’s a very rare occasion. I’ve only dropped one load from about 100 ft in 10 years of crewing.

The report that Cadfael posted contains older & outright wrong data even though it’s a Army fact sheet. As of this date, the CH-47F is still not with any front line units. I’ve got a bud in Alabama who is the crewchief on one of the few F models outside of Philadelphia (where they are built), & they are still running some tests on them. As far as the low maintenance rotor head goes, the technology isn’t quite there for CH-47 applications. That & the Army didn’t what to shell about $3 million for R&D costs.

The three guns the CH version has are place in the cabin door (right side), cabin window (left side) & on the cargo ramp in the back to cover the rear. We flew with plain old Viet Nam era M-60D 7.62 machine guns. No fancy miniguns for us.

Its true that the fleet is being re-engined to the -714 from the -712, but there are still a good number of -712 powered a/c out there, my unit being one of them. I do believe all the active duty units have the -714s, & the reserve units are getting them on an ever changing schedule. Rightfully so, the reserve units that are getting ready to deploy are getting them first. My units date for getting the new engines has been pushed back about 5 times.

Lastly, it takes 2 pilots & a minimum of one flight engineer to crew the a/c. We are, by no means, just observers. Normal crew has2 pilots with 2 flight engineers (FE’s) in the back, & in the desert, 2 pilots, 2 FEs & a gunner.

Hope this helps.

Chris Ish

Chris Ish

[Hooker169]

Hey Guy, I wouldnt be advertising you inadvertantly punching a load "only once". Tell me it was the training block and not some poor gun crew's one-niner-eight. Hopefully it wasnt inadvertant at all and you HAD to punch it <_< I never had to punch a load for safety of flight reasons, (Does making a hummv bounce twice on a really dark and dusty DZ count?) Anyway, back to the original post. We would spend the extra time backing the hummv up the ramp as to speed up the drop off, plus it looked cool as hell when it drove off the ramp as soon as the ramp came down after landing (we would pull a no-no and un-chain it on final) ;) It really is tight as hell and more often than not you end up braking a seat or two but nothing a little TLC cant fix. I think aN up-armored hummv will fit because of the tappered rear end but personally never hauled one internal, maybe Guy has?

[Ishthe47guy]

We were at Ft. Sill on a Saturday tasked with moving about 12 derelict Viet Nam era jeeps to be used as targets for the AIT students from the PZ out into the impact area. We would load the range control team, pick up the load, fly to a predetermined coordinate, drop the load, land, off load the team, who would then remove the slings, & get an accurate fix on that particular target with a hand held GPS unit, load them back up & repeat.

With my particular incident, the load started to swing around (it was a single point, center hook load) to the point it was getting uncomfortable. I did have my hand on the grip, since these were some pretty short hops, so we never safed the hook. To this day I don’t know how or why the hook released, but off went the jeep & hit the ground in a spray of dirt. We landed, the team off loaded, recovered the slings, which were way more valuable than the jeep to begin with, got their GPS fix, & came back aboard. That was the end of it. I’ve got the pics somewhere. I’ll have to dig them out.

When I was with the 101st, we slinged a SEE out to a DZ that was on top of a hill. The load was on the ground, & I punched off the slings. Next thing I see is the SEE starting to roll down the hill, picking up speed as it went. It ran through a small stream at the bottom of the hill with a pretty big splash, & came to a stop, upright, with no damage . Seems the driver had forgotten to set the parking brake, & the load certifiers missed it as well.

Chris Ish

[Hooker169]

Chris, Ah I see! I hate it when those hooks take on a life of their own But then again it would have been cool to drop something inexpensive We (crew members in general) were having a problem with guys hitting the release button right next to the mic button on the pickle grip so we were required to strap the grip to the floor next to the hole and call the load in flight with the hand mic. Anyway, did the hook swing up like every FEI says, or was the load too light when it went? I guess prob not since you are still here with us. Well take care Chris and fly safe "Ramp and cabin door secure,,,,Ready in the rear!"

[phantom]

My best (and only) Chinnook memory was back in 85 when we got our first ILTIS. (German designed jeep built by Bombardiair thats a peice of crap till this day)

I was teaching the Col. how to drive one.

He asked me to teach him to drive it to the airport, I did, and right up the ramp of a Chinnook.

Then we flew up north to begin the recovery of a old Bren gun carrier someone lost in a bog 20 years earlier.

I think Canada only had 7 or so Chinnooks and not for long after that trip. My first and only exposure to one.

[Ishthe47guy]

Hook, in the units I’ve been in, we just run the grip cable through a 5K tie down. The guy in the hole uses his mike cord to call the load, but we normally go hot mike.

When the load left the hook, the hook did not swing back, nor did the aircraft react in any way. The FEI I was flying with had to tell the guys up front that we lost the load. That indeed was a pretty light load for a 47.

Now for another example. It was my last flight when I was with the 101st before I ETS’ed , & I was paired with a brand new guy that just passed his RL 2 check ride. We were lifting a 14K concrete block in the sod at the airfield. This was the tail end of a 2 hour flight. Well anyhoo, he was in the hole, & released the block when it was about 2-3 feet from the ground. I’m here to tell ya, that hook swung up through the hole & back down again so fast, it was nothing but a blur. The aircraft shot up like a high speed elevator for a second before the pilots regained control, & asked what happened. The hook just clipped the guy underneath his bottom lip. I took him to the dental clinic for a look-see, but he didn’t get hurt. A few years later, I see this guys picture in Soldiers magazine going through Green Platoon for the 160th. Hope he made it.

Chris Ish

[Hooker169]

Im sure that guy in the 160th is either doing fine or not crewing anymore, those boys have a nack for weeding out the weak crew members. I do remember calling a NVG -198 load at Bragg once where they put the gun on a dirt road on the range. It was the only sand for miles and they always managed to put those things on the dustiest spots. Anyway, once we approached the load the dust started and you know how bad that sand hitting you in the eyes hurts. The gogles prevent the visor from coming down. So we were centered over the load and the hook-up man was making me thread the needle. He was a bout two feet from throwing the clevis on when I blinked the sand out of my eyes, thats when I heard clear as day over the transmission whine, "pick it up,,,, pick it up!!!!" I look and he is laying flat on the tube with the hook laying on his chest! And with a calm "ah, sir, lets bring it up 5,,,,4, 3, 2, 1 hold your up" we backed off the load. This guy must have sh*t himself! To think of 24,000 pounds of bone crushing testosterone rubbing up on ya, hell I would have too! How we didnt poke a hole in the belly with the tube I'll never know. Anyway, thats the only real "no sh*t, there I was,,," story I got.

I miss it. Mostly the guys and the comradery. The flying was fun and we did some cool stuff but the rest of it, well it was time to go. Starting a family was a reality check for sure. Anyway, congrads on having the nuts to keep doing it, not too many people do. If you ever see any of the guys from Savannah tell em Glidden said whats up. Later buddy, fly safe. Mike