polybebber Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 I need to know if the Gladiator Mk.I did have the Sutton harness and if a metal or bakelite type seat was fitted. Who can help ? My only reference is the Monografie Lotnicze book, but there are no pics of the seat / harness and I can't read the (Polish ?) text. Thank you. Lothar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lasermonkey Posted August 2, 2005 Share Posted August 2, 2005 Hiya, I have a bit of a walkaround of the Shuttleworth Gladiator (which I think is a Mk I) at my site: http://photobucket.com/albums/1003/lasermo...er%20Gladiator/ Hopefully, what you need to know is there. Cheers, mark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
polybebber Posted August 3, 2005 Author Share Posted August 3, 2005 Hiya, I have a bit of a walkaround of the Shuttleworth Gladiator (which I think is a Mk I) at my site: http://photobucket.com/albums/1003/lasermo...er%20Gladiator/ Hopefully, what you need to know is there. Cheers, mark. Mark, everything I could hope for is there :D , you should have seen the big, happy smile you put on my face . Thank you so much, I appreciate your help. Lothar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lasermonkey Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 Hey, no worries! Just happy to be of help. Cheers, Mark. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Piddien Posted August 3, 2005 Share Posted August 3, 2005 ;) And it is nice to see it in the colours of my nation, Norway. Nice pictures, and thank you for showing them here. Piddien. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flying Penguin Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 Apologies for bringing back a long dead topic. Please excuse my boundless ignorance, but what sort of harness is that? and is it covered by this Eduard set: Instructions Page 1 Instructions Page 2 Any info gratefully received.... Cheers Jamie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Edgar Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 (edited) It's a post-war harness, made by Irvin. During the war, the Gladiator would have had a Sutton harness, in fact, several years ago, when I first saw the Shuttleworth Gladiator, it still had one fitted. Page 1, of those instructions, covers it, but you'll only need to go to drawing II, no.III refers only to the Spitfire. Edgar Edited June 9, 2007 by Edgar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flying Penguin Posted June 9, 2007 Share Posted June 9, 2007 It's a post-war harness, made by Irvin. During the war, the Gladiator would have had a Sutton harness, in fact, several years ago, when I first saw the Shuttleworth Gladiator, it still had one fitted. Page 1, of those instructions, covers it, but you'll only need to go to drawing II, no.III refers only to the Spitfire. Edgar Thanks Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dylan the rabbit Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 (edited) Just found your walkaround site Mark. Top one, and very useful as a reference for scratchbuilding. Good work fella! Not all the planes have images loaded up though. What's that all about? Edited June 16, 2007 by dylan the rabbit Quote Link to post Share on other sites
is it windy yet? Posted July 19, 2007 Share Posted July 19, 2007 Yes the shuttleworth collection photos will be a great resource for my roden gladiator. Thanks Ron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Gibson Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) Thanks :blink: Check out the Gladiator on the IPMS Stockholm website. Eduard have the Sutton Harness wrong. Just reverse the Y and attach it to the shoulder straps. The Y goes between the seat and the pilots back. it then goes through the hole that should be in the lower part of the seat back and attached to a fuselage cross-member behind the seat. The same applies for the spitfire, hurricane or any aeroplane using the Sutton Harness. Hope your as slow at building as me. :) Edited January 11, 2008 by Dave Gibson Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Edgar Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 In that case, then, Shuttleworth got their harness completely wrong, since, when they had a Sutton harness, nothing, whatsoever, went through that hole, in fact the "Y" piece wasn't used. This was the wartime harness, still fitted; obviously the wartime fitters didn't know how to fit it. Edgar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Gibson Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 In that case, then, Shuttleworth got their harness completely wrong, since, when they had a Sutton harness, nothing, whatsoever, went through that hole, in fact the "Y" piece wasn't used. This was the wartime harness, still fitted; obviously the wartime fitters didn't know how to fit it.Edgar Perhaps they did. Why go to the trouble of cutting the hole in the seat back in the first place? The Y can be clearly seen projecting through the hole in the seat. Perhaps the fitters added what was available. Most members of the public wouldn't know a Sutton Harness from a dog collar. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Gibson Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 In that case, then, Shuttleworth got their harness completely wrong, since, when they had a Sutton harness, nothing, whatsoever, went through that hole, in fact the "Y" piece wasn't used. This was the wartime harness, still fitted; obviously the wartime fitters didn't know how to fit it.Edgar Edgar, Here's another from a Horsa glider. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Edgar Posted January 11, 2008 Share Posted January 11, 2008 (edited) Sorry, I thought we were discussing Gladiators. In all the years that I've been looking in, and photographing, aircraft, I've found an infinitesimal number with Sutton harnesses. I'm really envious that, in your researches, you must have been able to find so many that you can make such a sweeping statement. I've seen that Horsa photo, before, also the Mk.IX Spitfire; I have photos, though, of a Spitfire IX, where the harness could not possibly have gone through the hole, in fact one strap was still draped over the backrest. There's a Typhoon cockpit, with nothing through the hole, also a Tiger Moth, and the RAF Museum's Beaufighter cockpit. The pilot's seat, in the Lysander, is a metal framework, covered in material, and it has no hole. The Lancaster's seat has no hole, neither does any Mosquito, that I've found. If your assertion is correct, Roy Cross and Gerald Scarborough, who wrote the book on the Airfix Spitfire, after they'd inspected the Imperial War Museum's exhibit, must have lied, when they drew the harness, and so must the Czechs, when they drew the harness in the same way. Eduard's researches didn't lead them to take the straps through the hole, neither did Model Technologies. I've found several drawings of Spitfire harness arrangements (with more to come,) and I haven't found one which I can say, with absolute certainty, clearly shows how the straps were routed, except for post-war. As far as I can tell, only a/c, with a release mechanism, like the Spitfire, Hurricane, etc., had the extra "Y" strap; in others (with no release mechanism) I can't see what use they'd have been. If there's one thing that I've learnt, on a/c research, it's to, never, never, say something always (or never) happened; look at the often-trumpeted view that no Mk.IX had bulges over the wheel well. I've found one, not only with bulges, but domed rivets on the rear fuselage, too. Unfortunately, the Sutton harness is just lying on the seat, so it's impossible to say where it went. Edgar Edited January 13, 2008 by Edgar Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joncarrfarrelly Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 FWIW, from Scale Models January 1980. Jon Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Gibson Posted January 15, 2008 Share Posted January 15, 2008 FWIW, from Scale Models January 1980. Jon Very much appreciated Jon. Dave. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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