WW II red paint on US aircraft

[Mark S.]

Gents:

I've been researching the P-47's of the 56th FG and their red cowl rings. My first question is: Were they painted insignia red or something else. Often they appear as a red-orange color. Is this the result of sun-fading, unstable color (red until the late 70's gave the automakers fits) the age and properties of the color film in the cameras taking the pictures, or all of the above.

The red-orange seems to be similar to what is labeled sometimes as: Guards Red or Chevy Engine Red.

The second question is: On the 910th AW C-130's the tailband has a similar red-orange color. Is there other reds in use today besides insignia red.

Not trying to start another O.D. debate nor create a issue that flaps but just wondering.

Mark

[jrallman]

afaik, the only red available to WWII crews was insignia red, and any variation from that would be from the factors you mentioned, weathing, film etc. etc.

[ron]

afaik, the only red available to WWII crews was insignia red, and any variation from that would be from the factors you mentioned, weathing, film etc. etc.

I agree with you 100% on the offical what was likely availible but you have to ask yourself whether the aircrews/ground crews simply didn't walk to thier local town store and buy what ever paint they wanted just to personalize their planes schemes etc. I often wonder if this sort of thing went on, and if so how often. You would have to think that house paint etc was availible at that time and it would have been enamel paint. Food for thought I guess. Just throwing it out there.

[jrallman]

when it comes to WWII, i think the basic rule of thumb is that almost anything was possible! From what I have read though, there wasn't much problem obtaining insignia red on base, so I would guess it would be that, at least for markings etc. Now, for nose art and such, that is anyones guess as to where that paint came from!

[agboak]

In wartime Britain, everything would have been in short supply. Especially such as paint, which relied upon the supply of oil. Ideas like just dropping down to the local shops and buying anything they like just don't work in that environment.

[WW2ace]

If it appears sprayed and masked, it's probably the red available on base sprayed through the same gun the planes were painted with. If it's brush painted, like nose art, it could be artist's paints or household enamels. Small tins of enamels would have been widely available just about anywhere, even if they were prewar stock.

Well-done nose art by the squadron artist could be any color, but cruder, larger areas were probably painted with what was available on base. This seems to be the case with insignia red for the cowl rings.

[Michael Vorrasi]

afaik, the only red available to WWII crews was insignia red, and any variation from that would be from the factors you mentioned, weathing, film etc. etc.

Not so. The 4th FG was known to have obtained the red paint used on its aircraft noses from local British suppliers. It was not insignia red, but a much more orange-toned red. I use Santa Fe railroad red as a good match for it. My guess is the 56th also had its own sources. Their red noses look too bright in numerous color photos to be insignia red.

[P-38 guy]

I would have to think that for unit markings for a/c they would of been either U.S. or British stock. A lot of the nose art was done with what could be found on base or near by towns. Many artist mixed to get the colors they wanted. I have read several sources that state house paint was common for nose art.

They ran out of paint for the nose art on the Memphis Belle that's why it has the dress in blue on one side and red on the other.

Mike

[jr_rules2]

I used insignia red on mine because it matched the red from the decals I have.

[Mark S.]

Gents:

Thanks, Think I'll go with Floquil 31110 Navy Red. It seems to be close to Sante Fe red. I wonder if units didn't add insignia yellow to insignia red to get a brighter orange-red? Both were on base and it would explain the color variations.

Mark

[Hawk10]

In todays military, if a common item (ie paint) is not currently available in the supply system (eg on back order), a commander is authorized to allow the purchase the item "off the local economy" (at the local civilian hardware store or lumber yard) and to use unit funds to make the purchase. (when I was in the Guard, I bought more than one can of paint at the Ace Hardware in Junction City to touch up or paint additions to our Humvees and tracks). It's been part of our military since the Revolutionary War.

[jrallman]

Not so. The 4th FG was known to have obtained the red paint used on its aircraft noses from local British suppliers. It was not insignia red, but a much more orange-toned red. I use Santa Fe railroad red as a good match for it. My guess is the 56th also had its own sources. Their red noses look too bright in numerous color photos to be insignia red.

yes, hence the reason I started the post with "as far as i know".

[Grant in West Oz]

Just a bit of trivia.

UK/Aust. Post Office Red in the 40's~70's was listed in the Purple range of industrial colour chips used by manufacturers to meet standards.

Yippee, the P-38 looks to be vermillion.

G