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Flanker cockpit colour


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Hi,

I posted this question already in the 1/32 Trumpeter Su-27 topic, but not everyone visits that topic, so I'll post my own tread here.

I'm building ( very slowly... ) my 1/48 Academy Su-27UB for the moment.

I'm using the Eduard Su-27UB PE cockpit set and 2 NeOmega resin K-36DM ejection seats. I will also add lots of tubing and detail on top of the HUD, behind the seats, at the cockpit sides and the canopy...

But I'm really searching for a paint that matches the colour of the Flanker cockpits.

Flankerman told me he uses Humbrol Light Blue.

LST01 uses a mix of Tamyia XF-2 (white) and XF-18 (medium blue).

The problem with mixing is that you might still need the paint after you finished the paintwork becaus you might have to repaint some parts...

Can you all give your advice here please...

Best regards,

Jürgen

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The problem with mixing is that you might still need the paint after you finished the paintwork becaus you might have to repaint some parts...

Easy solution: mix more paint than you need and store it in a small container for later use :banana:

Anyway the Flanker (as most modern Soviet/Russian planes) seems to have a blue/grey cockpit color. The right hue can change depending on light and weathering (it seems more blue when new, then slowly fades to gray). So you can make your mix depending on how you like it, there's not a definitive answer.

As Paul Cotcher pointed out some years ago, Polly Scale makes an acrylic RLM 64 Light blue that is very close to factory fresh Flanker cockpit color (Btw, Paul, think I still owe you a couple of bucks for those bottles of paint!!!). If you prefer a more "gray" cockpit color for a "dirty and faded" Flanker, you can instead use FS 36375 with a black wash.

Hope this helps

Yuri

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Cool - didn't know folks were still referencing that. RLM 64 is awfully close, so is RLM 65 - the RLM 65 is a slightly greener and darker version - which depending on your scale and the age of the paint in the cockpit, can be fine as well.

The real key here is that if you look at two pictures of two different Flanker cockpits, they're likely to appear to be two different colors - or at least shades. Some are light baby blue, some are bordering on the old-school aqua color of the 1970s.

In the end, find a color that satifies you and don't worry about it - I certainly wouldn't tell you it's wrong, as it's Russian, and you never know what they'll use!

Cheers,

Paul

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Paul is right - the colour varies with age and lighting conditions - although I don't agree with his throwaway line about not knowing what colour the Russians will use. :thumbsup:

That is just a cheap stereotypical inexactitude - the Russians have paint standards the same as anyone else.

Anyway, back to the matter in hand - here are a couple of pics I took of a Su-35UB cockpit mockup in the Sukhoi pavillion at Farnborough a couple of years back.

Admittedly it isn't a real cockpit - but it does show the colours - and, as a bonus, the sliding throttle arrangement.

HTH

Ken

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Hi Jurgen :wave:

I don't know if this will be any help at all but Citadel Miniatures produce a colour that works quite well.

The paint is acrylic and available through the Games Workshop chain of model stores.

It is called "Space Wolves Grey". It is a very light blue/grey. I used it on my cockpit in 1/32 and it seems o.k.

Just another alternative to consider................ :P

(The paint can be weathered with a little pastel chalk to lighten/darken it.)

HTH

:cheers:

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Talking about paint standards, what would be the "official" colour for Flanker's undercarriage?

I'm sure it can be judged from the photos, but anyway. Gray something, but what exactly? This of course providing the Russians really have a standard - in which I believe together with Flankerman, who is rightfully fighting against prejudice. :cheers:

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ok, since we have Flankerman's attention - I'll ask.

what paint color should I use for a 1/48 scale Academy Flanker?

the MM enamel was a large disapointment. my Flanker looks baby blue.

what paint color do you recomend???

preferably in Tamiya or MM colors as those are available locally.

Thank you,

Said

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ok, since we have Flankerman's attention - I'll ask.

what paint color should I use for a 1/48 scale Academy Flanker?

the MM enamel was a large disapointment. my Flanker looks baby blue.

what paint color do you recomend???

preferably in Tamiya or MM colors as those are available locally.

Thank you,

Said

Said......

From my 'Flanker Kits Survey' - http://www.flankerman.fsnet.co.uk/su27surv.htm which is in need of an update - if only I can find the time :-

[b]

The following is a list of the colours matched to FS Numbers taken from a variety of sources -they all agree on the main colours !

Source/ Pale Blue Grey /Medium Blue /Dark Blue Grey

Aerofax/ FS 35550 /FS 35420 /FS 35526

Travers Decal Sheet /FS 35550 /FS 35420 /FS 35526

Hi-Decal Sheet /FS 35550 /FS 35420 /FS 35526

Travers (Russian Knights) Sheet /FS 35550 /FS 35410 /FS 34426

Model Master/Testors Enamels 2130 2131 2132 are a very good. I have used them and would recommend them as the best match.

The Xtracolor Enamels - X602/X601/X603 are matched to FS 15526/FS 15450/FS 15177 respectively and are too dark. [/b]

The new Flankers range from White Ensign are also very good - although IMHO, the Medium Blue is too dark - matched to the naval Su-33 rather than the land-based colours.

Whilst I believe that there are RusAF & factory paint standards, they fade very quickly. :thumbsup:

Most Flankers spend all their lives outside in the harsh elements, so the paint finish gets very grubby.

Add to that the squadron-level touch-ups - and the fact that the front end of the airframe is covered by a canvas 'bag' - so that it fades less than the back end -

day02_01.jpg

and you have a recipe for using almost any colour you can match to a photograph.

(Note that this photo shows a very old, early production Su-27 - as evidenced by the anti-flutter weights on the fins and the early-style FOD guard on the nosewheel). The paint is almos faded to a single colour.

I wouldn't get too hung up about Flanker colours - I don't think that the Russians do ! :worship:

Ken

PS - While I am of the opinion that there must be paint standards - no bureaucracy such as the Russian AF could operate without it - there are probably also paint supply problems - so at local level, the repair plant may well use whatever is in stock.

There have been photos shown in this forum of a Su-27 re-painted in bright colours - but that is an exception.

Edited by Flankerman
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...although I don't agree with his throwaway line about not knowing what colour the Russians will use. :)

That is just a cheap stereotypical inexactitude - the Russians have paint standards the same as anyone else.

Ken - you just love to throw me under the bus whenever you can :banana:

In the old days, and even going back to the GPW, I think there is some evidence to support what I said - I've always looked at the Russian approach as a more pragmatic approach than the current US or similar "FS" standard that very specifically dictates the paint, the mix, etc. etc.

What I said wasn't to insult the Russian paint standards - I'm sure there are some, but they've always struck me as looser and more practical than what we have here. Sort of a use what we've got approach...

The variance in Su-27 cockpit blue - while sometimes contributed by photographic conditions, has varied way to much over the years from a medium gray blue, all the way to an extremely pale duck egg blue - that sort of variance is not just due to weathering, lighting and age...

Compare that to the current US cockpit color FS 36231 - it's as consistent as can be - no matter what aircraft, no matter what manufacturer, they all look the same, or VERY close to the same.

The same cannot be said about Russian cockpit colors - it varies by aircraft, by manufacturer and even by plant from what I can see. On the present front lines you have Su-27s painted in some sort of light blue, the MiG-29 with a medium gray, and the MiG-31 with the old-school jade green.

Thus my comment was more on those lines - not that they're sloppy or anything of the sort - which is I think what you think I meant...

My other point in saying what I did was from a strict modeling standpoint, especially here in the US, where we have exacting FS standards, modelers tend to think of things as requiring exact match (thus bringing about references to the color police at model shows) - and while in most cases, that can be done for US types, the same is definitely NOT true of Russian types. So in saying that, it was to say - relax, there isn't an exact standard (backed up by the photographic evidence that I've looked at) - especially where modeling is concerned - get something that looks close and go with it.

You're still my mate though :cheers:

Paul

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PS - While I am of the opinion that there must be paint standards - no bureaucracy such as the Russian AF could operate without it - there are probably also paint supply problems - so at local level, the repair plant may well use whatever is in stock.

So in the end, we're saying the same thing! :)

I guess I should have caveated my first message by saying that I was speaking from a strict modeling view point. The US FS system (and I would say the BS and RAL standards as well) provide for some pretty strict guidelines which modelers can use to base their model projects around. Your statement above, illustrates that from a *modeling perspective*, there is a far looser standard (if any) for Russian aircraft...

Paul

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Generally speaking I think the standard color for the undercarriage is the same as the lightest blue that the airframe is painted with - in other words, the same color as the underside. Wheel wells are medium gray, and SOMETIMES, I've seen the landing gear the same color as the gear wells.

Paul

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Wheel wells are medium gray, and SOMETIMES, I've seen the landing gear the same color as the gear wells.

That's exactly what I mean. Most pictures seem to depict gray landing gear, though they should be light blue like the airframe. So what is this colour then?

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Hey Jurgen,

I might have an alternative for you - I'm primarily an acrylic user myself, but I really wanted the colors to be as "accurate" as possible so I went with White Ensign Paints out of the UK. They have three colors specifically for the Flanker. I haven't actually tried it yet, since I only ordered it today. Thanks to Flankerman for pointing those out to me.

Shark, the only online vendor I've found to carry these so far is Meteor Productions. I think they're $3 a tin, and the same size as those little Humbrol tins (ah, the nostalgia)

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Thank you all !!!

Hhmm, different people talked about Pollyscale paints...

Only problem is that these paints seem almost impossible to find here in Belgium...

Cheers,

Jürgen

Try Hannants in the UK (but you have to order also a kit to get paint bottles shippped)

Btw, Polly Scale Clear Flat is the best flat I've ever seen

Yuri

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Hey Jurgen,

I might have an alternative for you - I'm primarily an acrylic user myself, but I really wanted the colors to be as "accurate" as possible so I went with White Ensign Paints out of the UK. They have three colors specifically for the Flanker. I haven't actually tried it yet, since I only ordered it today. Thanks to Flankerman for pointing those out to me.

Shark, the only online vendor I've found to carry these so far is Meteor Productions. I think they're $3 a tin, and the same size as those little Humbrol tins (ah, the nostalgia)

....but lighten the Medium Blue with lots of white.............

the darker blue next to the bort number is straight from the tin - the lighter shade of blue is where I have lightened it with white.

On this particular Su-27 from the Linden Hill decal sheet, they touched up the airframe with darker blue - probably using Su-33 colours (because it is a naval regiment).

So White Ensign's Medium Blue is matched to the naval colour - but apart from that I would highly recommend them.

The White Ensign paints airbrush on beautifully and give a superb finish - but they take a long time to dry out.

Ken

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....but lighten the Medium Blue with lots of white.............

D'oh! Uh, well, since they look like Humbrol paints....are they compatible with Humbrol? If so I'll go pick up a tin of Humbrol white later this weekend.

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D'oh! Uh, well, since they look like Humbrol paints....are they compatible with Humbrol? If so I'll go pick up a tin of Humbrol white later this weekend.

Yes - I think I used a tin of Humbrol Gloss White that I had in my collection IIRC.

Experiment first though........ :lol:

Ken

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now THAT's a Flanker!

Finally an educational thread that does not end up on a pissing contest.

Thank you all (Ken, Supetom). I'll order some of that paint from Meteor then.

Said

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