Almansur Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1012562/L/ Link to post Share on other sites
Aggressor Supporter Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Nice photo! I wish US demo teams did this more often. Low and fast always gets the crowd into it. Link to post Share on other sites
I.Illes Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Nice photo! I wish US demo teams did this more often. Low and fast always gets the crowd into it. Nice photo indeed, but as Murph pointed out some days ago, people seem to forget what happened in Ramstein. Whatever manoeuvers they do, do it away from the crowd. István Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 WOW that must have rocked the windows and rattled the teeth on the crowd. Man do I miss the 'Vark' . Link to post Share on other sites
shadowy_one Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 it was a flypast for the Gold Coast Indy car race, the 111 is flying over blocks of units Link to post Share on other sites
Chappie Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 Nice photo indeed, but as Murph pointed out some days ago, people seem to forget what happened in Ramstein.Whatever manoeuvers they do, do it away from the crowd. István Yes, Ramstein was tragic, but that was a complicated opposing type maneuver. This shot looks to be a simple flat high speed solo pass. I see nothing wrong with US teams doing something like this, look at what the Thunderbirds did when they had Huns! U.S. demos are just too blah these days and have been for a long time. Just think how exciting it would be if the Thunderbird Diamond did their opening from behind the crowd pass at 600kts?! YEE-HAW!! The only tryly 'rockin' thing they have left is the Sneaky Pete Pass. BTW...AWESOME PICTURE!!! Having the people in the shot really sets it off!! Chappie Link to post Share on other sites
ross blackford Posted March 8, 2006 Share Posted March 8, 2006 :) HHHHHHHHHHHHHHmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111. A barnstorming PIG. Thank goodness we Aussies still appreciate a REAL air display. Anyone who attends an airshow or display knows that flying at any altitude CAN be dangerous. But I'm sure even Murph would have to agree the photo is indeed awesome. I wish I had that skill with a camera. Another factor in this great photo is that the photographer was in the right place at the right time, though I guess that's true for any dramatic photo. On the golden star rating system used over at airliners.net I would have to rate that a 5. If I had had an interest in photography and that kind of skill 25 years ago I would have some really mouthwatering shots taken at airshows, both military and civilian. Cheers, Ross. Link to post Share on other sites
Dan 88 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Sweeeeeeeeeet!!!! Link to post Share on other sites
Aggressor Supporter Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Yes, Ramstein was tragic, but that was a complicated opposing type maneuver. This shot looks to be a simple flat high speed solo pass. I see nothing wrong with US teams doing something like this, look at what the Thunderbirds did when they had Huns! U.S. demos are just too blah these days and have been for a long time. Just think how exciting it would be if the Thunderbird Diamond did their opening from behind the crowd pass at 600kts?! YEE-HAW!! The only tryly 'rockin' thing they have left is the Sneaky Pete Pass.BTW...AWESOME PICTURE!!! Having the people in the shot really sets it off!! Chappie Right on Chappie. I remember when I was little the Thunderbirds use to do that sneak pass thing with full afterburners going very fast from a close but safe distance above and from behind the crowd (twice!), not in front of the crowd after the diamond passes by. Nothing like it when it is behind you and totally unexpected. Why can't they do that anymore? Nobody's asking them to do a cross-over break over the crowd. Playing with the crowd in that manner, like I said, can really get them into it and is something I miss. Link to post Share on other sites
I.Illes Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Sure it´s awesome, but you never know when something will cause a failure. No mid-air-collission, sure, but you know...I would also be standing there shouting GOGOGO and Woooooohoooooo, no doubt István Link to post Share on other sites
Random Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Surely if you have a FRONT display line, there is no reason why you cant have a REAR one? You are still the same distance from the crowd! On sort of the same topic - the best displays are those that have curving display lines, such as Biggin Hill in the UK, as if you go to the far side of the airfield, you get the planes al but flying over you (as well as the Eurofighter Typhoons turning 180 degrees from broadside on with jetpipes in you face! WHAT A NOISE!) Ben Link to post Share on other sites
SimFixer Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 So what's with the SUU-20 on the port wing? Don't normally see wing stores on a demo routine. Also interesting that the pylon is inline with the fuselage at full sweep. Is that unique to the Aussie Vark? Don't remember the American version having that ability. You were limited to something like 30 or so degrees max when wing stores were loaded. Or am I all wet? Link to post Share on other sites
f14peter Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Right on Chappie. I remember when I was little the Thunderbirds use to do that sneak pass thing with full afterburners going very fast from a close but safe distance above and from behind the crowd (twice!), not in front of the crowd after the diamond passes by. Nothing like it when it is behind you and totally unexpected. Why can't they do that anymore? Nobody's asking them to do a cross-over break over the crowd. Playing with the crowd in that manner, like I said, can really get them into it and is something I miss. The Thunderbirds no longer perform the Sneak Attack manuever? Granted it's been a few years since I've seen them (Probably seven or eight), they did do it the last time I saw them, the solo coming directly over the crowd from the back, perpendicular to the show-central line. I looked for it every time I've seen them and it still gave me a jolt. Almost as much fun was watching the unknowing as they idly gazed out at the diamond, with no idea about what was about to happen! Link to post Share on other sites
BAM'n'IVM Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 So what's with the SUU-20 on the port wing? Don't normally see wing stores on a demo routine. Also interesting that the pylon is inline with the fuselage at full sweep. Is that unique to the Aussie Vark? Don't remember the American version having that ability. You were limited to something like 30 or so degrees max when wing stores were loaded. Or am I all wet? I've read that as a standard feature of the 'Vark - wing stores stay parallel to the fuselage to reduce drag. I'm sure there's someone on this board who used to work on them or fly them and can tell us for sure, though... Link to post Share on other sites
SimFixer Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 (edited) I remember when I was little the Thunderbirds use to do that sneak pass thing with full afterburners going very fast from a close but safe distance above and from behind the crowd .....Why can't they do that anymore? My guess, and that's all it is, is the higher command has become a lot more safety conscious over the last 3 or more decades so moves like that have been watered down somewhat in the interest of public safety. Remember that each demo routine has to have a stamp of approval from Command headquarters. In days of yore, the shows were done at bases and airports in outlying areas where burner noise and really low passes weren't a issue. Heck, the T-birds used to have a solo do a supersonic pass over the crowd in the Hun days! That was back when people enjoyed that sorta thing. Today you've got urban encroachment on what used to be barren land around many bases and airports (can you say "Luke"?), so even with a 5 sq. mile maneuvering box you'll be over moderately dense populated areas for lineup and approach. And as evidenced by the complaints from a small number of Tucsonans about the recent Raptor visit ( ), you're gonna get those oddballs that complain they don't want Fluffy the Cat to get all anxious when the lead solo get set up to make his sneak pass at .98 Mach. And as good as most demo teams are, bad things can and do happen when doing what appears to be a completely simple maneuver. Just look at what happened to T-bird 5 at Mountain Home a while back. One can imagine the fallout if a Diamond formation has a bump or something while crossing the crowd at 100' AGL. Absolutely no safety margin. The American demo teams at the very least are HUGE recruitment tools and if something bad happens during a, shall we say "risque", move and civvies get snuffed, the recruiters can all but kiss that tool goodbye. So the addage "Safety First" has become paramount, which is understandable given today's environment. Edited March 9, 2006 by SimFixer Link to post Share on other sites
SimFixer Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 (edited) I've read that as a standard feature of the 'Vark - wing stores stay parallel to the fuselage to reduce drag. I'm sure there's someone on this board who used to work on them or fly them and can tell us for sure, though... That restriction may have been for wing tanks only now that I think about it. I've seen stills from early in the Vark's life where the tanks were canted outward (like the Super Bug today but more so). Edited March 9, 2006 by SimFixer Link to post Share on other sites
Vliegenier Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 Totally nuts ! Stef Link to post Share on other sites
raptor22 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 The Thunderbirds no longer perform the Sneak Attack manuever? Granted it's been a few years since I've seen them (Probably seven or eight), they did do it the last time I saw them, the solo coming directly over the crowd from the back, perpendicular to the show-central line. They still do it... Did it at Moffett 2 years ago... and did it at Travis AFB and Nellis AFB last year... I managed to snap this shot at Nellis last year when they did... dude, check out the FULL BURNERS! He did it right over the crowds too in Nellis (you can tell by the position of the plane relative to where I took the shot-- just trust me, he did it over the crowds!). Not super duper low as the Vark, but decently low. Link to post Share on other sites
The_Animal Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 (edited) I think at that point, having seen a F-111 in full burner take-off, and coming in low over the crowd before, I'd have my fingers in my ears. (I think I may have to invest in a good set of earplugs...if I want to shoot at airshows). Edited March 12, 2006 by The_Animal Link to post Share on other sites
Shark Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Sure it´s awesome, but you never know when something will cause a failure. No mid-air-collission, sure, but you know...István well let's see.... nope, no crashes on that picture ... nope, no one hurt ... nope, nothing damaged. JUST AN ABSOLUTELLY AWESOME PICTURE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! wish people could just enjoy them instead of pointing out all things wrong with them. once when I was 12, we were driving by an airbase out in El Centro, California. These 4 Blue Angels F18's flew right over our heads, we could clearly see the pilots and aerials and all. it was one of the most special moments of my childhood!!!! Said Link to post Share on other sites
Aggressor Supporter Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 (edited) The Thunderbirds no longer perform the Sneak Attack manuever? Granted it's been a few years since I've seen them (Probably seven or eight), they did do it the last time I saw them, the solo coming directly over the crowd from the back, perpendicular to the show-central line.I looked for it every time I've seen them and it still gave me a jolt. Almost as much fun was watching the unknowing as they idly gazed out at the diamond, with no idea about what was about to happen! They still do it... Did it at Moffett 2 years ago... and did it at Travis AFB and Nellis AFB last year... I managed to snap this shot at Nellis last year when they did... dude, check out the FULL BURNERS! He did it right over the crowds too in Nellis (you can tell by the position of the plane relative to where I took the shot-- just trust me, he did it over the crowds!). Not super duper low as the Vark, but decently low. F-14peter, You and I are thinking the same thing. The maneuver we are thinking of, which you know it as the "sneak attack pass" and I just knew it as "sneak pass" are the same where the Thunderbird solo would approach the crowd from the rear and light the burners to get everyone's head down. I remember when they would do that twice in a show and everyone enjoyed being buzzed. *SPOILER* The pic that raptor22 posted is not the same. It is still called the sneak pass, but it is done after the diamond performs a rolling maneuver from left to right of the crowd. As the diamond passes and everyone is gazing at it, the solo then passes the crowd from left to right in front of the crowd with the burners lit. The F-16 really isn't over the main crowd. It flies over the front most portion that sticks out from the main crowd at show center where some people are at. Yes, it can get you and mostly does. But like I said before, it is not the same trick as when they are coming from behind as what F-14peter and I remember them and IMO, doesn't have the same impact. Edited March 10, 2006 by Raptor Supporter Link to post Share on other sites
Chappie Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Oh yeah the Sneaky Pete Pass is still done, but I've never seen it done over the crowd. At Andrews 5 does come closer and lower than normal to the show line. If I'm not mistaken the Pass is done while the Diamoind is performing the Arrowhead to Diamond Roll. I know when it's coming and I love to watch other folks reactions. It is the one part of the show that never gets old for me- with the commentator, the music, and the noise of the Diamond, 5's approach is totally silent....then......VVOOOOOOMMMMMMMM!!!! Chappie Link to post Share on other sites
fireman Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 Would there be any video of this Thunderbirds sneak pass available? Wold love to see something like this, cause this flying over the crowd is not allowed in the Netherlands during the airshow. So it would be great to see some buzzing over the crowd etc. Fireman Link to post Share on other sites
The_Animal Posted March 11, 2006 Share Posted March 11, 2006 (edited) Oh yeah the Sneaky Pete Pass is still done, but I've never seen it done over the crowd. At Andrews 5 does come closer and lower than normal to the show line. If I'm not mistaken the Pass is done while the Diamoind is performing the Arrowhead to Diamond Roll. I know when it's coming and I love to watch other folks reactions. It is the one part of the show that never gets old for me- with the commentator, the music, and the noise of the Diamond, 5's approach is totally silent....then......VVOOOOOOMMMMMMMM!!!!Chappie I remember the sonuvagun who did that Sneaky Pete Pass at their demo at Abbotsford. I was walking back to the car and damn it all, he went over me at about 30 feet off the ground at FULL burner and I'm not kidding. RIGHT OVER MY HEAD! I damned near dropped the Pepsi I was drinking. That I believe was back in 86 when both the Blue Angels and the Thunderbirds were at Abbotsford together. Edited March 11, 2006 by The_Animal Link to post Share on other sites
Jindivik Posted March 12, 2006 Share Posted March 12, 2006 I would say that in the case of this photo the telephoto effect of the lens is making it look like the Pig is closer to the building than it actually is. Having been ot Surfers Paradise a few times I know that there is a very large number of high rise appartment buildings along the beach, mostly concentrated around the area where this photo would have been taken. The RAAF, Army and Navy have very strict rules about flying close to built up area's and their pilots stick to those rules. As for the SUU, the Indy Festival goes for 4 or so days in Surfers and that photo may have been taken on one of the week days, the Pig was possibly on it's way back to Amberley from a training mission and was asked to drop in to surprise the crowd. Also, the two inboard pylons on each wing rotate as the wing sweeps so they are always parallel to the fuelage, the outermost pylon mount on each wing is fixed and is generally only used by the RAAF for wing tanks on long ferry flights, but I think they have stopped that now to try to extend the wing fatigue life a bit more. Link to post Share on other sites
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