F1 Mirage questions

[HGE]

I've been researching Mirage F1s and am mystified as to the types of ejection seats used. Can anyone tell me the different types

and if they are supposed to be associated with certin models? It seems to me they are random!

Another question I have concerns what appears to be spot lights located aft of the intakes. I think some models did not have them at all. (i.e. Mirage F1) Did some only have the light on one side? Also the light seems to be perfectly circular on some models and more elongated on others. Can anyone clue me in as to the rhyme or reason for this?

There is a model called the F1-CR that has a larg bump under the aircraft just in front of the fron landing gear door. I'm pretty sure there is a landing light located in this bump but what is the rest of it for? Also it seems to change shapes ( larger ) on some aircraft yet the model is still refered to as the F!-CR?

I'm useing 2 Hasegawa 1/72 kits to do a couple of F1's ( 1 Iraq ) the other undecided. I'm kinda leaning toward the Greek sky camo version.

I think it's a F1-CG. I've found one place for decals. (Carpena) Does anybody know of others?

Oh , I'm scratch building cockpits but if anybody knows of resin or PE for these birds I would be interested.

Thanks for reading my tedious post :D

Henry

[Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy]

I think the light in the intake wall was standard for all F1 subtypes, but only on the port side.

As far as the seats, I believe they were all Martin Bakers though possibly with slight differences here and there...wasn't it the Mk5 for the most part, folks?

[JackMan]

Here's a good site on the various F.1 versions:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dassault_Mirage_F1

As for the ejection seats, the single seaters had Martin Baker Mk 4 & the 2 seaters had Martin Baker Mk 10 ( though I've seen pics of the front seat with canopy breakers--the pointy 'ears' on top of the seat-- while the back-seater didn't have the canopy breakers)

The Greek Mirage F1 is a good choice. Though, if I were you, I'd go for the more interesting 3-tone "Ghost" scheme than the blue one:

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_378.shtml

Scroll down until you see the three Greek Mirage F1s. The "Ghost" scheme is the last of the three.

More Greek Mirage F1s here:

http://hafcphotos.cs.net/photo_viewer.cfm?...=36824&access=0

Though the ultimate Greek Mirage F.1 would have to be Sparti:

http://www.haf.gr/media/f1_sparti.jpg

http://hafcphotos.cs.net/photo_viewer.cfm?...0&currentpic=18

Edited May 26, 2006 by JackMan

[trojansamurai]

Henry, here's my take:

Ejection Seats - started out with MB Mk.4 seats (probably similar or identical to those on Mirage III); later used SEMMB Mk.10 (license-built derivative of Martin Baker Mk.10; similar or identical to those on Mirage 2000 and early F-18 with "horns" on the headrest). I'm not sure if all aircraft were eventually retrofitted with Mk.10s during midlife updates, or only on newer airframes, but the safe bet is to go with the Mk.10.

Taxi Light - if you're referring to the oval light, according to the Aerofax Minigraph, "almost all" F1s had this light on the left intake cheek only (port side). It doesn't explain whether the exception to "almost all" means that some had no light, or if it had lights on both sides. However, there is a circular (not oval) spotlight fitted on the starboard side.

Undernose Fairing - this is for the reconnaissance camera (hence, CR = chasseur reconnaissance or fighter recon). I believe the French version uses the larger, trapezoidal fairing. The smaller, wedge-shaped fairing you've seen is also a camera pod, but it appears to be for export versions, though I can't say with certainty.

Camouflage/Decals - The Iraqi version is definitely a neat scheme; just remember to add the leading edge extension at the base of the vertical stab. I've only seen this on Iraqi and Libyan aircraft, so it might be a local modification. Other cool schemes, if you're into multi-color desert camo, are for Jordan and Morocco. I believe Superscale had a sheet on Iraqi a/c, which included the F1, but Carpena probably has the most to offer for this subject. If you want to do a Jordanian one and want to print your own decals, I have computer-drawn all the necessary artwork, which you're welcome to.

Cockpit - You might check the usual suspects: Neomega, Pavla, etc. But, in my opinion, the cockpit is so small, narrow and black, you can hardly see it in 1/72 scale when finished. A nice seat is probably all you need, along with some bits of plastic placed here and there.

Here are some helpful links:

http://www.seatejectcolor.com/seat/index.html

http://www.ejectionsite.com/frame_sg.htm

[Murph]

To add to what Trojansanurai said there is also the FiCT. As the Mirage 2000 supplanted the F1 in the air defense role it was converted to add more ground attack capability with a laser ranger under the nose and the later ejection seat along with a new paint scheme.

Regards,

Murph

[mmaker]

Check also that Greek F-1s had the upgraded MB MK-6 wich is identical with MK-4s!

Also later on this summer,will have a new decal sheet (1/72,1/48)from Icarus Decals of Greek special painted Mirages featuring "Sparti" and "Talos" ...

[JackMan]

Also later on this summer,will have a new decal sheet (1/72,1/48)from Icarus Decals of Greek special painted Mirages featuring "Sparti" and "Talos" ...

WHAT!! Sparti & Talos?? In 1/72 !!??

I WANT! I WANT! I WANT!

Please keep us updated on those decals. I gotta get my hands on those

Btw, is anyone making decals in 1/72 for that gorgeous Greek Phantom in your sig?

Edited May 29, 2006 by JackMan

[Eric B.]

Henry, here's my take:

Ejection Seats - started out with MB Mk.4 seats (probably similar or identical to those on Mirage III); later used SEMMB Mk.10 (license-built derivative of Martin Baker Mk.10; similar or identical to those on Mirage 2000 and early F-18 with "horns" on the headrest). I'm not sure if all aircraft were eventually retrofitted with Mk.10s during midlife updates, or only on newer airframes, but the safe bet is to go with the Mk.10.

Taxi Light - if you're referring to the oval light, according to the Aerofax Minigraph, "almost all" F1s had this light on the left intake cheek only (port side). It doesn't explain whether the exception to "almost all" means that some had no light, or if it had lights on both sides. However, there is a circular (not oval) spotlight fitted on the starboard side.

Undernose Fairing - this is for the reconnaissance camera (hence, CR = chasseur reconnaissance or fighter recon). I believe the French version uses the larger, trapezoidal fairing. The smaller, wedge-shaped fairing you've seen is also a camera pod, but it appears to be for export versions, though I can't say with certainty.

Camouflage/Decals - The Iraqi version is definitely a neat scheme; just remember to add the leading

edge extension at the base of the vertical stab. I've only seen this on Iraqi and Libyan aircraft, so it might be a local modification. Other cool schemes, if you're into multi-color desert camo, are for Jordan and Morocco. I believe Superscale had a sheet on Iraqi a/c, which included the F1, but Carpena probably has the most to offer for this subject. If you want to do a Jordanian one and want to print your own decals, I have computer-drawn all the necessary artwork, which you're welcome to.

Cockpit - You might check the usual suspects: Neomega, Pavla, etc. But, in my opinion, the cockpit is so small, narrow and black, you can hardly see it in 1/72 scale when finished. A nice seat is probably all you need, along with some bits of plastic placed here and there.

Here are some helpful links:

http://www.seatejectcolor.com/seat/index.html

http://www.ejectionsite.com/frame_sg.htm

I believe Trojan has it right and please allow me a few additions :

Ejection seats : French aircraft (F1C and dual seat F1B) started their operationnal life with a Martin Baker Mk4b. They differ from the Mk4a Mirage III flew with and are close to the ejection seats that had been used in French Jaguars. The Mk4bs are different to Mk4as in that they have a cushion (or is it parachute) metal fairing at pilot shoulder level. Also Mirage F1 Mk4b had a double upper ejection ring when jaguars had a simple D ring. These aircraft were later refurbished with Mk10 seats and I believe F1CR and F1CT always flew with Mk10s.

Intake lights : OK

Undernose fairing : some foreign Mirage F1 have a smaller fairing. French Mirage F1CR have a dedicated reco mission and they have a larger undernose fairing. The French Mirage F1-CT (T for Tactical) have still another type of fairing incorporating what I believe is a designator

Camo and decals : check Carpena and Albatros for Mirage F1s. I used a mix of kit decals and aftermarket decals to build my Mirage F1CT (see ARC galleries). I found F1CTs interesting as they are the only French Mirage F1s with a wraparound camo of Grey/Green. (same upper pattern as grey/greenF1CRs)

Cockpit : ditto - I used a Mirage III photoetched set for the instrument panel, dark paint, and aftermarket Mk10 seat (I guess from Aeroclub)

HTH

Regards

Eric B.

[HGE]

Thanks for all the replys guys. I think I've decided to do the Greek 3-tone goast and the Iraq planes. The extention on the vertical stab will be made from an old Italeri Mig 27 kit. Well, I guess I goofed.. I ordered some true details MB MK7 ejection seats :blink: I kinda think the SJU-17 seats may look better? Hmmm..What do you guys think? Or is there a MB mk4 or 6 out there I just haven't found?

Thanks Guys,

Henry

Hmmm... I wonder why the US never purchased a few F1's for Adversary duty? I think they would have been a better choice than the F-21( Kifr)

[Murph]

What do you guys think? Or is there a MB mk4 or 6 out there I just haven't found?

Neomega makes a very nice Mk-4 seat http://www.lindenhillimports.com/neomega.htm

Hmmm... I wonder why the US never purchased a few F1's for Adversary duty? I think they would have been a better choice than the F-21( Kifr)

You're looking at a whole host of factors, not least of which was politics.

Regards,

Murph

[HGE]

Thanks for the NeOmega link Murph! I would like my F1's to be as sweet as possible ( Limited by my skills of course :blink: )

Outside of the politics envolved, I'd like to know what those other factors might be. Does it just come down to a contest between the Kifr and the F1? I think shurly the F1 is a more ccpable plane in any role.

Thanks, Henry

[Murph]

Thanks for the NeOmega link Murph! I would like my F1's to be as sweet as possible ( Limited by my skills of course :blink: )

Outside of the politics envolved, I'd like to know what those other factors might be. Does it just come down to a contest between the Kifr and the F1? I think shurly the F1 is a more ccpable plane in any role.

Thanks, Henry

The Mirage would have been a better threat simulator, since it had a real radar. They both were small and turned like a rock, so that aspect was even. You could also add in the fact that it didn't have to simulate anything, since it was flown by several air forces that the U.S. could have fought, and in one case did. You really can't separate the politics from this decision though, and I ain't going there.

Regards,

Murph

[Eric B.]

I believe availability might have been an issue as well. The Mirage F1s were still in use in their respective airforces at the time. The F-21 (Kfir C1) were phasing (or phased) out of Israeli's inventory then...

Eric B