f4h1phantom Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Was checking Jakub's Desert Storm site (www.dstorm.eu) and ran across this pic from Airliners.net: http://www.dstorm.eu/pictures/nose-arts/f-4/us/69-7263_3.jpg Now, I know it's a museum, but the only news I ever had of a single piece windshield installed in a Phantom was on Verlinden's F-4E Lock-On book. IIRC it mentions it was only a one of a kind test and says nothing about them being installed on any other airframes. So, what is this G model doing with one of those? Was the single piece windshield installed on more aircraft other than the one shown in the Verlinden book? Did it ever see (limited?) widespread retrofit??? Hope somebody out there can throw some light here. Sincerely, Jorge Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keith Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 the one piece wind screen wasnt just a one-off mod, it was slated for introduction on reworked birds but the aircraft was retired for more modern types before it was done to alot of aircraft. I have a picture of a former ANG F-4E that we gave to Turkey that had the one piece wind screen installed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
John B Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Some F-4Es from the Missouri ANG based out of St Louis had the one-piece canopy. I guess it was convenient to have the McDonnell Douglas Factory nearby. I seem to remember that a RF-4Cs were fitted with a one-piece canopy, but my memory could be failing me on this one. Phantomphiles on the board will certainly come up with more details. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
f4h1phantom Posted June 9, 2006 Author Share Posted June 9, 2006 Thanks Keith and John! Still recovering from the shock ! Seems you never stop learning new things, even on your favorite aircraft!!! Sincerely, Jorge. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JackMan Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) I do believe a single Greek Phantom had a one-piece windshield. Here: http://hafcphotos.cs.net/photo_viewer_deta...?photoid=193376 Edited June 9, 2006 by JackMan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phantom Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I *think* about 12 got them, mostly the St Louis guard unit. Its possible a G could have got one as a replacement unit after a bird strike or something. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kenlilly106 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 When I saw this post, I knew it had to be about the one the in the USAF Museum. I was up there a couple of years ago, and my friend who was with me noticed it and pointed it out. The info plate doesn't mention the canopy, the only F-4's I thought had the single piece canopy were the F-4E's from the MI ANG like John B. mentioned. To the best of my knowledge, the total number was no more than 5, and they were all F-4E's. In a "small world moment", I have a similar picture hanging on the wall in my office: Ken Quote Link to post Share on other sites
F4DPhan Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Going through all my records, I have the following list for single-piece windscreen F-4's: RF-4C: 65-0874, Per former NE ANG Crew Chief, PhanCon 91 Image 65-0935, Per former NE ANG Crew Chief 65-0942, Smoke Trails, Vol 9, No 3, Pg 24, CA ANG 68-0874, 124th TRG and 155th TRG (per Gary Chamber) F-4E: 68-0516, Smoke Trails Vol 8, No 4, pg 23 69-0345, Smoke Trails Vol 6, No 1, pg 22, MO ANG 68-0351, Smoke Trails Vol 6, No 1, pg 23; also, the Colors & Markings book 68-0448, The Phantom Story (Thornborough), pg 159 (no photo) 68-0473, The Phantom Story (Thornborough), pg 151 (Turkish AF, former MO ANG) F-4G: 69-0265, SMoke Trails Vol 10, No 2, pg 21, 57th FW 69-7263, Wild Weasals (Thornborough/Mormillo), pg 115, Wild Weasals (Davis, Squadron Signal), pg 70 69-0298, (Rick Chin/Leading Edge Decals/ID ANG), 561st TFS in Desert Storm, 1991, transferred to the 190th FS/124th FG, last active USAF F-4 to fly-off to AMARC, 1996 69-0273, (Rick Chin/Leading Edge Decals/ID ANG), International AIr Power Review #12, pg 85 Long time ago (1980's?), Maintrack Models made a resin(?) canopy for the single piece windscreen in 1/48th. HTH. Mike Quote Link to post Share on other sites
David Walker Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Very interesting topic. I had never seen the one piece wind screen before on the F-4. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Keith Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 my memory is a little vague, but try the book "The Phantom Story" and it will tell you all about the single piece wind screen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KevinS Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Maintrack Models used to have a vacuform 1 piece windscreen in 1/48. I picked one up from EBAY a few years ago for $2. Kevin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SCOUT712 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Some of my buddies remember, that the 20th FS also got one F-4E with a frameless windscreen. They are full of compliments for it, finally they could see outside to the front of the jet. SCOUT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThePhantomTwo Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) 69-0345, Smoke Trails Vol 6, No 1, pg 22, MO ANG That should be 68-0345,there was no 69-0345. You also should add F-4E 68-0424,it flew as the 181st TFG commander's a/c.It shows it on page 150 of Don Logan's ANG/AFRES F-4 book. Scout,ask what tail number's they worked on in the 20th,my former F-4E,68-0490,was tranfered to the 20th in 1991 along with about five other of our F-4E's. Edited June 9, 2006 by ThePhantomTwo Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GreyGhost Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Was that part of the proposal for the "Super Phantom" that I believe Boeing, Pratt & Whitney and Isreal were working on for a time ??? Interesting stuff guys, thanks !!! Gregg Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gary West Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) We lost the RAF Phantoms back in 1992, but only a couple of years before the sudden change of mind (thanks to the wall coming down) the RAF had big upgrade plans - one of which included adding this same wind shield. Oh well :blink: Edited June 9, 2006 by Gary West Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Impatient Pete Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 (edited) From "The Phantom Story" by Anthony M Thornborough Pete Edited June 9, 2006 by Impatient Pete Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChernayaAkula Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I remember a pic in an Osprey Aerospace book of an F-4G with a one-piece windshield. The title was (drawing from memory, so correct me if I'm wrong) Wild Weasels by Frank Mormillo. The pic's caption read something along the lines of "the one-piece windshield is a rarity". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bandwagon 106 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I'm not sure if "The Phantom Story" mentions that some of the Idaho F-4Gs had them fitted. I know at least three of St.Louis'phantoms tried them, obviously more had them later. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sluggo357 Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 Gents, During Desert Storm, I had several...I repeat...several, F-4G Wild Weasels pull up to my windows with one-piece windsheilds. The one I distinctively remember was Col Ron Carp's 37th Tac Fighter Wing flagship jet. I took several pictures of this jet during ODS and it would take some hunting but I could probably find them. This was peculiar to only the 37th TFW and not the 52nd TFW jets from Spangdalhem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Drivingincircles Posted June 12, 2006 Share Posted June 12, 2006 You can add RF-4C 69-0376 to the list as well I have a photo of it from 1990 with the one piece windshield. Will Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jinxter13 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 (edited) Sorry wrong thread.......my bad. Edited September 28, 2010 by Angels49 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
strikeeagle801 Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 The Modern Phantom Guide by Jake Melampy talks about them too. I can't get to my copy, but I think I remember Jake saying that the total number of F-4s of any sort to get them was less than 20. Aaron Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Air-Craft Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 The screens were made in a joint development between McDonnell & Goodyear & fitted to F-4E's is 1985 for a one year evaluation period at the request of the AFFDL. Although they went down well, funding for the project didn't materialise, although the sceens remained fitted following the end of the evaluation. The screen seems to have been first fitted on the line to two Missouri ANG birds (68-0345 & 68-0351) which were from the first production of 99 F-4E's. This was followed by some additional later F-4E's & "handfull" of RF-4C's. I guess the F-4G's that had this screen were originaly F-4E's that had them fitted at factory Quote Link to post Share on other sites
phasephantomphixer Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Boy, been since 1991 but IIRC all Squadron Commanders were to have these at George-Red, Blue, Yellow, silver and black Squadrons, but that was when I got out and not sure how many did? Yes, Carp's had it and also IIRC, you can get his markings from the 1/48 AMT F-4G boxing. I do know if it was deployed DS that badges were removed from intake sides. Also was told the windscreen was from the F-15? I remember when the Hill scheme Hasegawa Weasel was new, I had read on the box "New one piece canopy" and thought it had this windscreen with it! Do note where Pete (Hello Pete!) added tech that view A-A is true of all Phantom side windows, that there is no visible seal at the base since it continues below the panel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jbrundt Posted September 28, 2010 Share Posted September 28, 2010 Also was told the windscreen was from the F-15? That makes sense but based on the previous poster's drawing the section views are wrong for a 15 windshield. The F-15 windshield was one of my assemblies at McDonnell. Original F-15 windshields were drilled and fastened to the frame but with the E we had gone to a bonded in place assembly (no fasteners holding the glass in). A single piece glass was much cheaper from a manufacturing standpoint because it required less parts and labor to build. But like many projects it was done as a test and when the final cost-benefit analysis came through and they saw how many ships would need to be built vs the scheduled build qty the cost wasn't there so it got dropped. The fact that the Guard unit was next to the factory was just a coincidence. The 131st didn't get any special considerations when it came to aircraft mods. jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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