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Zactoman

1/32 YF-23 Black Widow II

330 posts in this topic

"One million dollars......"

"Will it be an EVIL resin model?"

:thumbsup:

Ehem, I don't think one million dollars is enough. One million dollars are not what they used to be...

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Ehem, I don't think one million dollars is enough. One million dollars are not what they used to be...

"What?,....why did n't someone tell me? C'mon people, through me frickin bone here....

Ahem,.....One BILLION dollars! muha,...muhaa,..muhahahaha........"

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Where are those mini warheads? I think I could use some of those in the kit (the hold-somebody-ransom-option-in-order-to-get-back-the-one-million-you-payed-for-it).

If it´s evil, it´s gotta be REAL evil.

(and don´t say you can´t do any real mini-warheads in 1/32...)

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Thanks Chris, it's a neat insight into your technique. As you say, not too diferent from most but, the result is! :banana:

Whenever I've tried scribing I've really struggled to:

i/, get the line thickness consistent.

ii/, get the line depth consistent and

iii/, manage to get rid of the ridge of plastic created as I draw the scribing tool through the material.

Do you find that scribing the resin is different to plastic?

I can see how sanding will remove the ridge but don't the freshly engraved panel lines and rivets just fill with waste material again? That certainly seems to be the case when I've tried.

Perhaps I'm not being patient enough.

Chris, on average, how many times would you say you make a pass along any given line? Twice, three times, more....? Perhaps I'm trying to make a line too quickly or I'm pressing too hard.

Any insight you can offer will be invaluable my friend. Thanks again for taking the time to explain your techniques. :banana:

:wacko: So many questions! Hurts my brain...

Where to start???

The resin I've cast this part in does scribe very similarly to plastic, so the technique is similar.

I tend to scribe with the tool tipped back at about a 30 degree angle.

I make each pass with light enough pressure that if I slip off the line I'm babely scratching the surface. This is a comfortable pressure for me to create the scribe lines, but also makes fixing mistakes much easier.

When possible I try making passes from each end of the line. This helps me to control the depth near the end points of the line and also helps minimize depth inconsistencies that result from unequal pressure and chattering.

I make several passes with each sized point, beginning with a sharp compass point.

I increase the depth with each larger diameter but tend to finish slightly shallower than my end goal.

Once I've reached the final width and approximate depth I smear the black (Stabilo 'All') pencil into the line. This helps me to better see the width of the line and also seems to act line a 'release agent' for the next step, the sanding.

Next is the wet sanding with 1200 and sometimes 2000.

Some debris ends up folding back into the line and can be removed with a tooth brush, or I'll often make a few more passes with the final diameter scribe tool, just applying enough pressure to remove the pencil and debris. At this point I also check for consistant depth and if need be scribe it slightly deeper.

The final few passes I use minimal pressure, but enough to burnish and smooth the inner surface of the line...

More pencil and it's done.

Sounds like a lot more work than it is.

Once I'm finished with the scribing and ready to mold or paint the part I take a wet tooth brush to the model and remove all the pencil.

Now some pics!

Some panels drawn in Illustrator.

Scribe1.jpg

Poked with a compass point.

Scribe2.jpg

I smear the pencil on after each step and each segment of each line.

Dymo tape as a straight edge.

Scribe3.jpg

The holes created by poking make nice start/stop points...

There you have it!

Scribe4.jpg

;)

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Scribing on the underside of the fuselage is almost finished! :banana:

Scribe6.jpg

Scribe5.jpg

:banana:

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Chris!

Dude-You are the man.

Please tell me how you rivet. Getting consistently even-spaced rivets in a straight line befuddles me sometimes. For example, I have yet to figure out how to evenly space rivets around a round or oval panel. Any thoughts Yoda?

Regards,

Pig

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Nice trick on the pencil-grease. That's some of the cleanest scribing I've seen. Following this thread with interest.

Jens

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Outstanding scribing work.....I'm in awe :blink:

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Chris!

Dude-You are the man.

Please tell me how you rivet. Getting consistently even-spaced rivets in a straight line befuddles me sometimes. For example, I have yet to figure out how to evenly space rivets around a round or oval panel. Any thoughts Yoda?

Regards,

Pig

I'm guessing Adobe Illustrator again???

Chris?

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Zactoman I know you are all in 1/32 scale but but but but why not 1/48. Since I have no idea casting resin, is it too hard to cast 1/48 when you have 1/32 already? i mean you have already done all the reasearch..

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Fantastic work!!

Will you post pics of the casting process?

I think it could be very instructional for all of us....

What's next?? 1/32 Mig 25? Rafale?....

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Chris! Thanks for sharing your scribing technique with us! It's finally given me the idea on how to scribe some of my stuff!!!!

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Yeah chris, it it possible to resize it down to 1/48? Or does that mean super lot of work? I would totaly loooooooooove to have one in 1/32. But i am 16, and it can sevirely damage my already tight budget. :banana:

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Chris - can you say what was used as basis for model geometry - proportions and cross sections? Scaled up Italeri kit or you could make some measurements at the Western Museum Of Flight, before NG has taken it back from there? To my knowledge, no detailied drawings were (and will be in the nearest future) released due to NG and MDC legal agreement taken after ATF winner decision.

As another rivet counter (in the case with YF-23) I can say that Chris made unbelievable job of getting into every panel line and fastener. They are not only where they shoud be, their number is the same as on the big PAV! Can't wait till it will be aviable for purchase!

Best wishes,

Gregory

www.secretprojects.co.uk

Edited by flateric

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Thanks for all the nice comments everybody!

Much of the panel line and rivet layout was done in Adobe Illustrator and transferred to the model using the techniques I described on the previous pages and in the riveting article that Berkut was so kind as to provide a link to...

As for the overall shape... :cheers:

I did heavily rework the 1/72 Italeri kit which was my main reference, but also used every other piece of reference available to me including every model, photo and drawing I've found.

I was lucky in that while the plane was still at WMF I managed to get lots of pics (though I wish I had more! Especially of the cockpit!!!). While I was there I asked if there was any way to get pics of the top of the plane and the staff was kind enough to loan me a VERY tall ladder (I'm afraid of heights and it must have been 16 if not 20 feet!).

As I mentioned on page 1 of this thread:

"I hand carved it from blocks of 12lb. sign foam that were pinned together. Spackled, primed, puttied, primed, puttied, primed, puttied, primed, puttied, primed, puttied, primed, puttied, primed, puttied and primed until I was happy with it."

I left out a lot of the "filed, sanded, nit-picked, filed, sanded, nit-picked, filed, sanded, nit-picked, filed, sanded, nit-picked, filed, sanded, nit-picked, filed, sanded, nit-picked" part of it.

Though I'm very happy with the shape I doubt it would survive a wind-tunnel test... ;)

Back to the shop now...Casting A-7 and Su-27 parts and trying to make progress on the 23 between things...I've started cutting holes in the fuselage to add vents!

:wacko:

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Chris, that is some beautiful work. I want to get one but it's going to be quite some time before it's affordable; will this be something that's a short-time offer (like the F-16XL conversion) or will you have a more extended production akin to your Corsair and Flanker bits?

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Chris, that is some beautiful work. I want to get one but it's going to be quite some time before it's affordable; will this be something that's a short-time offer (like the F-16XL conversion) or will you have a more extended production akin to your Corsair and Flanker bits?
Thank you Icchan!

No promises, but I'm hoping to be able to do long term production of the kit and keep it affordable (For one thing, it will be a full kit, not requiring you to purchase another seperate kit or aftermarket kit for landing gear, cockpit, etc.). Production quantity and span will depend on many factors, so we'll see...

:)

YF-23Sufa.jpg

:crying2:

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Chris - BTW, before PAV-2 was re-painted for the first time by WMOF staff, and it was in original colours, I've noticed some extra curved panel lines behind the canopy.

52695b17fed7761c80.jpg

Also, are you going to replicate that complicated inlets boundary layer suction system pattern? I've broken my head trying to calculate accurate proportions of these numerous dot squares (made with laser perforation on the actual aircraft)?

9cfdd71f5f8a4f456a.jpg

Best wishes,

Gregory

www.secretprojects.co.uk

Edited by flateric

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Yeah chris, it it possible to resize it down to 1/48? Or does that mean super lot of work?
Since this is a completely hand-made model I would have to start from scratch to do it 1/48. True, a lot of the research will have already been done, but actually making the patterns is extremely time consuming.

Besides, 1/48 is too small. My eyes aren't that good...

...are you going to replicate that complicated inlets boundary layer suction system pattern?
Yes, I'm going to do it all! I'll be using a fine mesh pattern for that. Same as what I used for the Su-27 FOD guards, and same as the engine bay cooling vents pictured below.

Thanks for the great drawings and other info you've provided Flateric! :redx:

BTW, for anybody who hasn't checked it out yet...Go take a look at http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/forum/index.php !

Some pretty cool stuff and lots of interesting reading!!!

Belly is almost finished.

Belly1.jpg

Engine air turbine exhaust holes, ECS details and APU vent ( :wacko: ).

Belly2.jpg

Engine bay cooling vent and fuel vent.

Belly3.jpg

:cheers:

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great work again, good to see you are working on it again. keep up the good work, if I can afford one, I will buy 1 :cheers:

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Zactoman, dude,.....would you mind stepping into this gentlemans laboratory for a minute please? He would like to take some of your DNA so that he can clone you. :o

That way, we can get other projects like a 1/32nd scale Eurofighter Typhoon created to the same stratospherically high standards............. :worship:

This is mind blowing stuff Chris. Major kudos to you my friend.

:beer4:

:cheers:

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Chris,

I have a copy of the YF-23A Utility Flight Manual dated 1 June 1990. I would be willing to send you a copy.

John

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