Tomcat TPS in Tamiya Paint

[Brian P: Fightertown Decals]

Tried uploading the paint/decal tests w/ AK RC Air and MM but tsaysbthey are too big. Only have them on the phone so will have to figure a way to downrez them...

[Brian P: Fightertown Decals]

10 hours ago, hawkwrench said:

What about tamiya xf-80 for 36375?

Tim

Not even close. Why not just use the actual paint? Buy the spray cans and decent them. Or use another brand. Nothing in the Tamiya bottle  acrylic line will be close and in the end your model won’t look like the TPS colors...

Edited March 22, 2019 by Brian P: Fightertown Decals

[Brian P: Fightertown Decals]

2 rectangle decals are 36375. Top colors are AK acrylic far left, AK RC Air on the left, MM on the right. Decal across both. FYI, MM 35237 is dead on fs match. Still the best match I’ve seen. Middle bunch of colors is 2 sets of AK RC Air. The triangle is 35237 from Fightertown 48083 or 48086. It is noticeably darker than the AKRCA 35237 paint. You can see very little contrast in the 36375 decal on top of AKRCA 35237. And the 36375 decal is darker than the paint for both 36375 and 36320. 

 

FYI, the small blotch on top of the AK/MM 35237 is the Tamiya mix given in the F-14D kit. I think it’s a touch too purple and dark. I’d add a bit more of the x19 and a touch of X18 blue to bring it in match with the MM color. 

Trying to upload the Tamiya Fs paint test with decals...

 

Edited March 22, 2019 by Brian P: Fightertown Decals

[Swordsman422]

I like Mission Models for my base TPS colors. I then spot paint with MM, decanted Tamiya, Vallejo, and even AK to get a decent spread of color variation. AK I use the least because their TPS colors tend to be too dark and too blue. Their medium grey is almost a match for MM's USN blue grey.

[hawkwrench]

What's the MM paint number for 36375?

 

Tim

[GW8345]

3 hours ago, hawkwrench said:

What's the MM paint number for 36375?

 

Tim

The enamel is 1728 for the 1/2 oz bottle.

Edited March 26, 2019 by GW8345

[Paul Moore]

I was a Navy pilot and the 80's & 90's jets looked all pretty gnarly after a bit.  Especially while on cruise!  Personally, I'd get any decent color and focus on weathering and how various jets were actually painted.  And then throw in lighting, age, maintenance, oil, salt air, age, etc ....You've got pretty much a blank check.  

[RichardL]

25 minutes ago, Paul Moore said:

Personally, I'd get any decent color

 

However, if you use any color that's somewhat off, then the low viz decals might not work as previously shown and mentioned in some posts above.

[Paul Moore]

Hmmm.....good point.  I've had that happen.  Thanks.

[RichardL]

I've been preaching this for quite some time:  Always start out with accurate colors and apply decals.  Then you can go to town with weathering or what have you afterwards.  Otherwise you might regret it later down the road.

 

The real aircraft starts out with accurate colors from the factory, and mother nature does the weathering on the paints and the markings afterwards.

[Paul Moore]

What got me to this thread was I was looking for accurate colors for the academy F-22.  I pulled a few dozen photos off the internet and I realized that the plane had just about every shade of gray there is!  And each photo makes the color different.  So there's not much to go wrong when picking the perfect color ....unless you can't see the decals.  And that could be a problem in the F-22.  

[RichardL]

And this is the reason why you can't go by photos off the internet or magazines.  Different cameras capture colors differently.  For example, the color tone from a Nikon DSLR tends to be slightly on the blue side, and color tone from a Canon DSLR tends to be slightly on the warm side.  In addition, different computer monitors display colors differently.  Different time of day and different lighting conditions also alter the actual color on the aircraft.  Therefore, you need to refer to the actual Federal Standard color chip when picking the perfect color.  This way, the accurate color on your model will change with the lighting condition just like the real one.  Taking pictures of your model under overcast sky, no problem.  Taking pictures of your model at sunset, no problem, etc...

[SERNAK]

.,

Edited March 20, 2021 by SERNAK

[RichardL]

God forbid that the decal makers should base the colors of their decals on some company's paint colors.  That would be a grave sin.

 

Regarding the TPS colors, the total cost of all three official US government color chips is less than the average price of a Tamiya 1/48 scale Tomcat kit.  Therefore, it is best if the decal makers use the actual color chips.

 

[jenshb]

That is quite a visible difference between light and dark compass gray (36375 and 36320 respectively).  Model paints typically have less contrast than that...

[Janissary]

That 35327 looks like 36118 Gunship gray. I can't begin to imagine the top of the Tomcat being that dark out of the paint barn. Same thing for the ghost grays. I am not disputing that these are the official chips, but something doesn't add up. One could argue the overall difference in scale (looking a chip unclose vs a Tomcat from a difference) is the cause but even then I can't see a panel cut out from the real thing being this dark. 

 

The only thing that comes to my mind is the saturation. When painting, if these paints are going onto a lighter base primer, and the paint is not sprayed to saturation, a much lighter tone can be expected I guess. 

[GW8345]

5 hours ago, RichardL said:

God forbid that the decal makers should base the colors of their decals on some company's paint colors.  That would be a grave sin.

 

Regarding the TPS colors, the total cost of all three official US government color chips is less than the average price of a Tamiya 1/48 scale Tomcat kit.  Therefore, it is best if the decal makers use the actual color chips.

 

Hate to tell you this but those are not the "official" paint color chips.

 

The official paint color chips would say Federal Standard 595B and would have a NIIN.

 

I've never heard of a "AMD-STD-595TMA", that is not a US Government specification.

 

Going by the official Federal Standard 595B (NIIN 7609-01-162-2210) fan deck, 36320 and 36375 (on card 57) are not as dark as the card you have pictured and are extremely close to each other. The cards you have pictured are too dark to be the official color.

 

Our Tomcats were never that dark when we painted them and we were using the official spec colors.

 

EDIT: SAE International is a private company, those paint chips are what that company says the US Government goes by, they are not the official USG paint chips.

 

Going by the all the decals I have from various manufactures, they all have the correct shades of gray IAW Mil-Std-2161 series and Fed-STD-595 series.

Edited March 20, 2021 by GW8345

[RichardL]

39 minutes ago, GW8345 said:

Hate to tell you this but those are not the "official" paint color chips.

 

The official paint color chips would say Federal Standard 595B and would have a NIIN.

 

I've never heard of a "AMD-STD-595TMA", that is not a US Government specification.

 

Going by the official Federal Standard 595B (NIIN 7609-01-162-2210) fan deck, 36320 and 36375 (on card 57) are not as dark as the card you have pictured and are extremely close to each other. The cards you have pictured are too dark to be the official color.

 

 

This is one reason why people never go by colors depicted in the photos.

 

AMS-STD-595A supersedes Federal Standards 595C:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Standard_595

 

This is the current standards for government procurement.

 

[RichardL]

3 hours ago, jenshb said:

That is quite a visible difference between light and dark compass gray (36375 and 36320 respectively).  Model paints typically have less contrast than that...

 

Do you believe model paints or do you believe official color chips?  Common now.

 

This is from the previous Federal Standard 595C:

 

 

 

 

[RichardL]

1 hour ago, GW8345 said:

EDIT: SAE International is a private company, those paint chips are what that company says the US Government goes by, they are not the official USG paint chips.

 

Might want to read this then:  AMS-STD-595 - Colors Used in Government Procurement

 

• FED-STD-595 Cancellation Notice
• AMS-STD-595 Adoption Notice

SAE-AMS-STD-595, “Colors Used in Government Procurement,” was adopted on February 14, 2017, for use by the Department of Defense (DoD).

 

BTW, colors printed on the fan deck are affected by too many variables and thus the fan deck is Not for QC or Inspection purposes.

[RichardL]

Hopefully the two pictures below, taken recently with a Nikon DSLR this time without any color adjustment, will quiet the doubters and those who have been living under a rock.  

 

Top color chip is FED-STD-595C.  Bottom color chip is AMS-STD-595A:

 

 

[GW8345]

3 hours ago, RichardL said:

 

Might want to read this then:  AMS-STD-595 - Colors Used in Government Procurement

 

• FED-STD-595 Cancellation Notice
• AMS-STD-595 Adoption Notice

SAE-AMS-STD-595, “Colors Used in Government Procurement,” was adopted on February 14, 2017, for use by the Department of Defense (DoD).

 

BTW, colors printed on the fan deck are affected by too many variables and thus the fan deck is Not for QC or Inspection purposes.

I stand corrected.

 

However, since we are talking about the Tomcat's TPS scheme, AMS-STD-595 was no around when the Tomcat was around so you using it does not work for the Tomcat.

 

(Neither was FED-STD-595C)

 

You need to use FED-STD-595B for the proper color of what the Tomcat's TPS colors were.

 

Also, as someone who has actually painted an operational Tomcat's TPS scheme, the colors you are using are too dark, even when it came out of the spray gun.

 

And the fan deck was used for QA/inspection purposes, each squadron corrosion shop was issued a set and that is what they used to verify they had the correct colors.

 

I did 15 years of my Naval career in Tomcats, 5 of them in QA, the colors you are stating are the correct color are not the correct color used on the Tomcat.

 

Just as an FYI, "Ghost Gray" is not listed for any color in FED-STD-595C, Appendix IV, Master Color List. In fact, 36375 is listed as "Medium Gray" and 35237 is listed at "Blue Gray" so the "Ghost Gray" name is not an official color name in 595B or C.

 

You can claim you have the correct colors but you are using references and color chips from that do not match the time period of the Tomcat. Get a hold of the 595B fan deck/color chips and then do your comparison, until then, your comparison is invalid.

 

Edit: one last thing, before you call out decal manufactures for not using the correct color chips you yourself might want to use the correct color chips, not something that was issued 10.5 years after the Tomcat was retired.

 

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by GW8345

[RichardL]

2 hours ago, GW8345 said:

You need to use FED-STD-595B for the proper color of what the Tomcat's TPS colors were.

 

Also, as someone who has actually painted an operational Tomcat's TPS scheme, the colors you are using are too dark, even when it came out of the spray gun.

 

 

Why do you keep on insisting in believing the colors that came out of my cheap camera phone that's not even an iPhone?  Maybe your monitor is calibrated too dark.  Again, too many variables affecting the hues of the actual colors in any online photos.  Do you really think 36375, 36320, and 35237 changed drastically between FED-STD-595B and FED-STD-595C?

[Brian P: Fightertown Decals]

FYI, and once again, for Fightertown Decals, we print our colors to match Navy FS colors. We specify to the printer to use the FS colors from the correct book to print match. Matching them to a specific brand of paint can vary. And on occasion we have sent a paint sample to the printer to match that color. 
 

30140 is the worse color I’ve ever dealt with. Different paint makers vary from a light tan to a dark brown. And none that I have seen actually match the FS color. The closest to the real color is MrColor C526 (but it doesn’t claim to match 30140). And that is darker than you’d expect. AKRCA version looks great but comes in too light. 
brian 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Brian P: Fightertown Decals

[RichardL]

10 hours ago, GW8345 said:

Also, as someone who has actually painted an operational Tomcat's TPS scheme, the colors you are using are too dark, even when it came out of the spray gun.

 

I figured it out.  Your old computer monitor is calibrated way too dark. 35237 you said looks more like 36118 to you looks no where close to being that dark on my monitor, and I do have the color chip for 36118.  Also, the 36375 and 36320 color chips are on white background in the pictures above, so the background should not look gray on your monitor.

 

Also, a color sprayed on a small 3 x 5 card will always look darker than the same color sprayed on a much larger aircraft.