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Hajo L.

CSAR-X HH-47

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I´m planning of "converting" a 1/72 RoG MH-47E into the HH-47 CSAR-X helo of the USAF. As this is aircraft is only a planning thing so far, I´d still like to collect some infos and thoughts about this.

For instance, I wonder why the first artistic impressions of the HH-47 shows it with a lot of armament (looks like a .50 at each aft window left/right, a minigun in the left left front cabin window and also a weapon station at the ramp) but no weapon at all at the main cabin entrance at the right front. Is this necessary to allow the hoist-operator to do his work? Ideas and insights welcome!

Artistic impression:

CSAR-X-2_375x300.jpg

See also: http://www.flightinternational.com/assets/...px?ItemID=10204

HAJO

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IF the AF goes with the -47, they are planning on putting 5 gun stations on it. left forward, left rear, right forward, right rear, and tail. More than likely it will be miniguns in the forward and rear stations and a .50 on the tail. But I am sure they will be able to carry any combo they want.

The right front station will be set up much the same as ours is in the MH-53. The right door gun will be stowed (swung inside the cabin) during hoist operations.

I hope to heck they buy the thing. I would fly on it....

HTH

Cheers

Matt

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Also on the HH-47, they're planning on widening the cabin door to 48" and the lower portion of the door will be removed and replaced by a plug that is put in there while in flight and removed for hoist ops. There's going to be a step that extends over the refueling boom and there will be a patient treatment area in the cabin just behind the door area. The window opposite of the cabin door will be enlarged upwards for better visibility for the gunner.

Matt - In my world, there'd be an HH-47/HH-92 Hi-Lo helicopter mix for AFSOC and CSAR requirements. I left out the Osprey on purpose.

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Also on the HH-47, they're planning on widening the cabin door to 48" and the lower portion of the door will be removed and replaced by a plug that is put in there while in flight and removed for hoist ops. There's going to be a step that extends over the refueling boom and there will be a patient treatment area in the cabin just behind the door area. The window opposite of the cabin door will be enlarged upwards for better visibility for the gunner.

Matt - In my world, there'd be an HH-47/HH-92 Hi-Lo helicopter mix for AFSOC and CSAR requirements. I left out the Osprey on purpose.

I agree completely. And there was a reason the V-22 was pulled from the compitition. Maybe after the announcment is made on which acft will get the job.........they will release why it was pulled.

Cheers

Matt

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Well, you know all about the problems fast-roping from it, add to that the per-unit cost and teething problems over it's development history - that all knocked it out of the running. The Navy quietly gave up on the SAR version they were considering years ago, instead going with the HH-60H for that mission.

As I understand it, it was Bell-Boeing that pulled the V-22 out of the running. Bell is partnered with Lockheed and Agusta Westland on the US.101 (HH-71) and Boeing could offer the HH-47 option, both of which had a better chance than the V-22.

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Guest LITTLE BIRD 117

LB

Edited by LITTLE BIRD 117

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Guest LITTLE BIRD 117

I heard a rumor that Panda models was coming out with a 1/48th mh-47e or g,is that true

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I heard a rumor that Panda models was coming out with a 1/48th mh-47e or g,is that true

Panda has been laying awfully low for some time now. AFAIK they are no longer in business.

:cheers:

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LOL, yeah, it'll be released right after their 1:72 C-17! :cheers:

Just kidding

Actually, there's speculation now that since Italeri has a 1:48 ACH-47 out, that a 1:48 CH-47D and MH-47E will follow w/in the next couple of years.

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Guest LITTLE BIRD 117

Huh.....I was looking forward to buying that kit oh well.Thanks for the help.

LB

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In my world, there'd be an HH-47/HH-92 Hi-Lo helicopter mix for AFSOC and CSAR requirements. I left out the Osprey on purpose.

I'm believing more that the HH-47 wouldn't be a bad choice for the CSAR and whatever else you want it to do mission. The low mix though, go Merlin HH-71! ;)

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I heard a rumor that Panda models was coming out with a 1/48th mh-47e or g,is that true

Then again IIRC, panda did also say that they were coming out with a 1/35 chinook, but trumpeter released one. Weird. ;)

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My $ is on the Sikorsky -92...But again, I'm pretty biased! :cheers:

Pig

If the rumors I'm hearing are true, I'm not going to bet against you. How's that repaint going?

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Guest LITTLE BIRD 117

Hajo.L if you are willing to wait a while(year or 2) It sounds like from the forums that someone will come out with a !/48 mh-47E or G.IF not I know of some other kits.

Jake

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Well, I haven´t built a 1:48th so far, I only purchase 1:72s... And I also bought the model just some hours ago, need to finish my AH-58 and then the HH-47 will be engaged! :D

HAJO

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Guest LITTLE BIRD 117

Hajo,

You don't know how much I want a 1/48th mh-47e.I will convert it to an MH-47G,MH-47E,and HH-47.So I am really anticipating the kit to come out.This is just awsome.Well good luck with your HH-47.

LB

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I hope the AF goes with the HH-47 for sure. That means the pilots will start out on the TH-1's which are over at Lowe AAF here at Rucker, and then move over to the CH-47D's over at Knox AAF. This will have to add more jobs for us out here at Fort Rucker. There is already a little over 3000 people working for AFS. There has been talk in the past for building a new airfield, who knows maybe the training will come and we will get that new airfield.

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If someone were to ask me why I think the HH-47 will win, one word. Commonality. If both the AF and Army were flying like types, imagine the cost savings in parts and logistical planning. Makes alot of sense and the -47 is a good helicopter that has been proven over and over again.

A mixed in with the HH-92 or whatever, and you've got a combo that is tough to beat. Look at our ops during Allied Force. Two Pavelows escorting a single MH-60G. The Paves flew top cover, while the 'Hawk could scoot in and grab the downed pilots.

We'll see...

Jeff

Agreed. Especially with AFSOC getting out of the heavy helicopter business in 2008 and putting all their eggs into the CV-22 (lots of limitations on that machine - problems fast-roping, self-defense, can't carry external cargo in airplane mode, greatly reduced cabin space). A hi-lo mix of HH-47s and either the H-92 or H-71 would be ideal.

Three months ago I would have said that CSAR-X was Boeing's to lose. Not only due to the training and logistics commonality, but the HH-47 would be a force multiplier to compliment the Army's MH-47 fleet and USSOC would just love that.

However - now that CSAR is under ACC's tent (let's not kid around - it's a fighter-fraternity and their priority is the F-22/F-35) and AMC and AF Space Command are wanting new helicopters (I just can't foresee the more expensive HH-47 flying around silo security crews), because of those two political developments, I'm putting my money on the HH-92 or HH-71.

Anyone know when an announcement will be made?

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Agreed. Especially with AFSOC getting out of the heavy helicopter business in 2008 and putting all their eggs into the CV-22 (lots of limitations on that machine - problems fast-roping, self-defense, can't carry external cargo in airplane mode, greatly reduced cabin space).

Just curious, now that the Air Force has taken delivery of some CV-22's, has anyone heard if there are any reports of how they are performing and what the crews think?

Phil

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If someone were to ask me why I think the HH-47 will win, one word. Commonality. If both the AF and Army were flying like types, imagine the cost savings in parts and logistical planning. Makes alot of sense and the -47 is a good helicopter that has been proven over and over again.

.........

Jeff

That is EXACTLY why it is in the running. There is a lot of talk about that around these here parts. "Commonality" is THE reason it is in the running due to the requirement for an "off the shelf" weapons system (same with the H-92 and 101, etc)

...........

Anyone know when an announcement will be made?

Pushed back to November this year. But that could be moved up if the choice is made earlier than anticipated.

Just curious, now that the Air Force has taken delivery of some CV-22's, has anyone heard if there are any reports of how they are performing and what the crews think?

Phil

The AF has several out at Kirtland AFB in NM right now. The crews like it because it is so simplified. All of the systems are automated. Almost everything is run Fly-by-wire. When something is wrong with the bird, it will tell you exactly what it is, and what needs to be replaced (VIA the displays it has). So the crews are loving it based on that.

Now.......they are not performing as well as expected. To be honest, they are having a lot of trouble keeping them in the air. Their performance landing in a high altitude environment is not going well at all. And the thing has A LOT of rotor wash, which makes almost every landing in the NM desert a dust out landing. So they have some hurdles to overcome...........

We shall see. We are supposed to get our first one at Hurby in late fall this year.

Cheers

Matt

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Now.......they are not performing as well as expected. To be honest, they are having a lot of trouble keeping them in the air. Their performance landing in a high altitude environment is not going well at all. And the thing has A LOT of rotor wash, which makes almost every landing in the NM desert a dust out landing. So they have some hurdles to overcome...........

We shall see. We are supposed to get our first one at Hurby in late fall this year.

Cheers

Matt

Sorry to hear that something as touted as the V-22s are under performing in some areas. Hopefully these things will be worked out soon. Say, what have you heard about the preferred CSAR-X helicopter floating around the operators? I have read on another forum that the HH-47's size is a concern for this role as well as the larger footprint and logistics it looks like it'll require, and a concern of mine which I mentioned on another post here. I don't believe the Sikorsky's HH-92 is as capable as the Agusta/Lockheed's HH-71 Merlin.

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