Trigger Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 RS - A friend of mine is in the RQS business and at least in his squadron, the HH-47 is preferred. It's size is not a negative, but an asset as far as they're concerned. Lots of room for patients, crew, self-defense weapons and gear. They (PJs) work with other units and branches a lot so they're used to being in MH-47s and CH-47s. It's a known quantity that's low-risk. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pavelow44 Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 RS- A friend of mine is in the RQS business and at least in his squadron, the HH-47 is preferred. It's size is not a negative, but an asset as far as they're concerned. Lots of room for patients, crew, self-defense weapons and gear. They (PJs) work with other units and branches a lot so they're used to being in MH-47s and CH-47s. It's a known quantity that's low-risk. Well Trigger just hit the nail on the head. The bottom line, on CSAR-X, is the customer which they will support (I.e...the PJs). And Trigger is dead on when he says they are used to working with the platform. They work with the Army guys all the time. So they know what they can do, and what they can't with other platforms. IF the AF goes with a -47, the cabin will be the same size as other -47's, but will incorperate a lot of "life saving" equipment (and a CRAP load of guns :D ) that our PJs would need to save lives. And they are good at what they do, so why not give them the best they can possibly have. RaptorSupporter............Can you keep a secret?........I would LOVE to see a Merlin win the job. BUT KEEP THAT QUIET!!!!! :blink: And the V-22 will come around. But it is going to take a lot longer than they hoped. :D Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nightstalker Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Gotta agree with everything that's been said regarding '47 as a rescue bird, but one thing that springs to mind for me though is that it's a hell of a huge target for the bad guys when it's operating at the front line or well behind the enemy's. Lets not forget how many the nightstalkers' lost or had damaged in Operation Anaconda.It's just a huge, un-missable, tempting target. Despite having all the bells and whistles to ingress/egress "stealthily" (if you can call a bird like the Chinook stealthy), it still carries a HUGE audible footprint where-ever it goes. Remember the Marines rescued Scott O'Grady with "plain Vanilla" 53E's that were nothing more than cargo ships with NONE of the associated systems/avionics/weapons etc of a dedicated CSAR bird. Don't get me wrong, I love the bird (spent 6 years on the Charlie model in the RAAF) but it just seems like an outrageously large, loud, expensive machine to use as a dedicated covert operations platform when it was designed purely and simply to lift heavy ****! :huh: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jai5w4 Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 Not one to speculate, but my eyes don't lie. Saw an HH-92 in a hangar just north of Eglin a couple months back. This is the same facility that turns regular Hercs into Spectres/Talon II's among other things... :huh: Filed it under; Things That Make Me Go, "Hmmmmm...." B) It'll be interesting to see how this one turns out. -John Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 (edited) They're aware of the noise issue and still like it. Given the amount of guns it can carry for defense (5), that's a trade-off they seem to be willing to make. HH-3s and HH-53s performed the role well in the 1960s and 70s and today the biggest complaint the PJs have about the HH-60G is it's small size. Not enough room for everything/everyone which is why they put the ammo cans for the two guns outside the airframe now. And the 160th has lost MH-60s as well as AH-6Ms in combat as well, so I'm not worried about their losing one in A-stan being a testimony to vulnerability. The Chinook is also one of the fastest helicopters around and since it's outfitting is so similar to the MH-47G, it can take on roles previously performed by the MH-60G/L/K, MH-47G & MH-53J/M. As of 2006, there's no difference between an MH-60G and an HH-60G aside from a simple letter and the command that's operating it - ACC vs. AFSOC. Yes, the Marines rescued O'Grady, but that's of little consequence. Planners had a fix on O'Grady's location and the Marines were the closest assets available at the time. They did a great job but that's not to say Air Force CSAR wasn't capable. Air Force CSAR flying MH-60Gs did conduct other rescues such as that of the pilot of Hammer 34 (an F-16 shot down over Kosovo) and the Vega 31 rescue (pilot of the F-117A shot down). In the Vega 31 rescue, an MH-60G made the pick-up while two MH-53Js circled overhead providing air cover. USAF SAR and AFSOC assets performed rescues in Afghanistan 2001/2003 and later on in Iraq in 2003. John - Sikorsky has a facility in Florida so it's not surprising that they would dispatch an H-92 to Eglin for review by Air Force brass. They've had one making the rounds these past several months around the US on a campaign tour. I saw an H-92 in Kissimmee Airport over the course of 2-3 days back in 2002. What color was the example you saw? Edited October 3, 2006 by Trigger74 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aggressor Supporter Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 RS- A friend of mine is in the RQS business and at least in his squadron, the HH-47 is preferred. It's size is not a negative, but an asset as far as they're concerned. Lots of room for patients, crew, self-defense weapons and gear. They (PJs) work with other units and branches a lot so they're used to being in MH-47s and CH-47s. It's a known quantity that's low-risk. Thanks Trig. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Aggressor Supporter Posted October 3, 2006 Share Posted October 3, 2006 RaptorSupporter............Can you keep a secret?........I would LOVE to see a Merlin win the job. BUT KEEP THAT QUIET!!!!! ;) B) Matt Matt, your secret is safe with me. :D Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jai5w4 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 John - ... What color was the example you saw? Looked to be in the "primer grey/primer yellow" scheme. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Looked to be in the "primer grey/primer yellow" scheme. Was it one of these? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted October 4, 2006 Author Share Posted October 4, 2006 @Trigger Thanks for the excellent article and picture! HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jai5w4 Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Was it one of these? More like the top one than the bottom. Not as many windows. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted October 4, 2006 Share Posted October 4, 2006 Top one is their HH-92 demo as I understand it, the one that's been making the rounds lately. Wouldn't surprise me at all if that was the one you saw, especially in the Panhandle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Thats the same one I saw and photographed out in Colorado this past spring. I think that helicopter has been spotted in more places than Elvis! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pavelow44 Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Matt, with all those guns on the -47, you're job security just went up huh?Jeff God I hope so. Otherwise the future of rotory wing gunners is going to go down the crapper........ With fingers crossed... Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hemspilot Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 (edited) Photo of the CSAR-X competition winner. http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1119...=1078627&size=L Edited October 7, 2006 by hemspilot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Hajo L. Posted October 7, 2006 Author Share Posted October 7, 2006 His nose makes him look dumb... HAJO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Photo of the CSAR-X competition winner.http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1119...=1078627&size=L Has the winner been announced? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Guest LITTLE BIRD 117 Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Mabey I herd wrong but I thought it wasn't going to be anounced for a bit'. LB Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 God I hope so. Otherwise the future of rotory wing gunners is going to go down the crapper........With fingers crossed... Matt You could always look into trading in your speed suit for a set of ACUs now that Guns-A-Go-Go is coming back. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pavelow44 Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 You could always look into trading in your speed suit for a set of ACUs now that Guns-A-Go-Go is coming back. But I like my Speed Suit. I look cool in it . And I wouldn't mind ONE BIT flying on that puppy. Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pavelow44 Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Paint some orange, white and black stripes on that thing and you've just found Nemo! ............ Me Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ggaunt Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 "I hope to heck they buy the thing. I would fly on it...." Flying on it will be one thing. Working on the pig will be another. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Trigger Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 God I hope so. Otherwise the future of rotory wing gunners is going to go down the crapper........With fingers crossed... Matt Well Matt, your job security just went up! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pavelow44 Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 Oh yeah, You know what I will be doing when I get back to Hurby...... :D :D Matt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
grandadjohn Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 At least it keeps my former brother-in-law(not that I see him much anymore) employed, since he divides his time between the Hook plant and the Apache plant here in Mesa Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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