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Hajo L.

CSAR-X HH-47

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RS

- A friend of mine is in the RQS business and at least in his squadron, the HH-47 is preferred. It's size is not a negative, but an asset as far as they're concerned. Lots of room for patients, crew, self-defense weapons and gear. They (PJs) work with other units and branches a lot so they're used to being in MH-47s and CH-47s. It's a known quantity that's low-risk.

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RS

- A friend of mine is in the RQS business and at least in his squadron, the HH-47 is preferred. It's size is not a negative, but an asset as far as they're concerned. Lots of room for patients, crew, self-defense weapons and gear. They (PJs) work with other units and branches a lot so they're used to being in MH-47s and CH-47s. It's a known quantity that's low-risk.

Well Trigger just hit the nail on the head. The bottom line, on CSAR-X, is the customer which they will support (I.e...the PJs). And Trigger is dead on when he says they are used to working with the platform. They work with the Army guys all the time. So they know what they can do, and what they can't with other platforms. IF the AF goes with a -47, the cabin will be the same size as other -47's, but will incorperate a lot of "life saving" equipment (and a CRAP load of guns :D ) that our PJs would need to save lives. And they are good at what they do, so why not give them the best they can possibly have.

RaptorSupporter............Can you keep a secret?........I would LOVE to see a Merlin win the job. BUT KEEP THAT QUIET!!!!! :blink:

And the V-22 will come around. But it is going to take a lot longer than they hoped.

:D

Matt

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Gotta agree with everything that's been said regarding '47 as a rescue bird, but one thing that springs to mind for me though is that it's a hell of a huge target for the bad guys when it's operating at the front line or well behind the enemy's. Lets not forget how many the nightstalkers' lost or had damaged in Operation Anaconda.It's just a huge, un-missable, tempting target.

Despite having all the bells and whistles to ingress/egress "stealthily" (if you can call a bird like the Chinook stealthy), it still carries a HUGE audible footprint where-ever it goes.

Remember the Marines rescued Scott O'Grady with "plain Vanilla" 53E's that were nothing more than cargo ships with NONE of the associated systems/avionics/weapons etc of a dedicated CSAR bird.

Don't get me wrong, I love the bird (spent 6 years on the Charlie model in the RAAF) but it just seems like an outrageously large, loud, expensive machine to use as a dedicated covert operations platform when it was designed purely and simply to lift heavy ****!

:huh:

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Not one to speculate, but my eyes don't lie.

Saw an HH-92 in a hangar just north of Eglin a couple months back. This is the same facility that turns regular Hercs into Spectres/Talon II's among other things... :huh:

Filed it under; Things That Make Me Go, "Hmmmmm...." B)

It'll be interesting to see how this one turns out.

-John

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They're aware of the noise issue and still like it. Given the amount of guns it can carry for defense (5), that's a trade-off they seem to be willing to make. HH-3s and HH-53s performed the role well in the 1960s and 70s and today the biggest complaint the PJs have about the HH-60G is it's small size. Not enough room for everything/everyone which is why they put the ammo cans for the two guns outside the airframe now.

And the 160th has lost MH-60s as well as AH-6Ms in combat as well, so I'm not worried about their losing one in A-stan being a testimony to vulnerability. The Chinook is also one of the fastest helicopters around and since it's outfitting is so similar to the MH-47G, it can take on roles previously performed by the MH-60G/L/K, MH-47G & MH-53J/M. As of 2006, there's no difference between an MH-60G and an HH-60G aside from a simple letter and the command that's operating it - ACC vs. AFSOC.

Yes, the Marines rescued O'Grady, but that's of little consequence. Planners had a fix on O'Grady's location and the Marines were the closest assets available at the time. They did a great job but that's not to say Air Force CSAR wasn't capable. Air Force CSAR flying MH-60Gs did conduct other rescues such as that of the pilot of Hammer 34 (an F-16 shot down over Kosovo) and the Vega 31 rescue (pilot of the F-117A shot down). In the Vega 31 rescue, an MH-60G made the pick-up while two MH-53Js circled overhead providing air cover. USAF SAR and AFSOC assets performed rescues in Afghanistan 2001/2003 and later on in Iraq in 2003.

John -

Sikorsky has a facility in Florida so it's not surprising that they would dispatch an H-92 to Eglin for review by Air Force brass. They've had one making the rounds these past several months around the US on a campaign tour. I saw an H-92 in Kissimmee Airport over the course of 2-3 days back in 2002. What color was the example you saw?

Edited by Trigger74

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RS

- A friend of mine is in the RQS business and at least in his squadron, the HH-47 is preferred. It's size is not a negative, but an asset as far as they're concerned. Lots of room for patients, crew, self-defense weapons and gear. They (PJs) work with other units and branches a lot so they're used to being in MH-47s and CH-47s. It's a known quantity that's low-risk.

Thanks Trig.

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John -

... What color was the example you saw?

Looked to be in the "primer grey/primer yellow" scheme.

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Looked to be in the "primer grey/primer yellow" scheme.

Was it one of these?

20060502_HH92.jpg

H92.jpg

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@Trigger

Thanks for the excellent article and picture!

HAJO

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Top one is their HH-92 demo as I understand it, the one that's been making the rounds lately. Wouldn't surprise me at all if that was the one you saw, especially in the Panhandle.

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Thats the same one I saw and photographed out in Colorado this past spring.

I think that helicopter has been spotted in more places than Elvis!

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Matt, with all those guns on the -47, you're job security just went up huh?

Jeff

God I hope so. Otherwise the future of rotory wing gunners is going to go down the crapper........

With fingers crossed...

Matt

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Guest LITTLE BIRD 117

Mabey I herd wrong but I thought it wasn't going to be anounced for a bit'.

LB :nanner:

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God I hope so. Otherwise the future of rotory wing gunners is going to go down the crapper........

With fingers crossed...

Matt

You could always look into trading in your speed suit for a set of ACUs now that Guns-A-Go-Go is coming back.

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You could always look into trading in your speed suit for a set of ACUs now that Guns-A-Go-Go is coming back.

But I like my Speed Suit. I look cool in it :cheers: .

And I wouldn't mind ONE BIT flying on that puppy.

:thumbsup:

Matt

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Paint some orange, white and black stripes on that thing and you've just found Nemo!

:rofl: ............ :rofl:

:cheers:

Me

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"I hope to heck they buy the thing. I would fly on it...."

Flying on it will be one thing. Working on the pig will be another.

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God I hope so. Otherwise the future of rotory wing gunners is going to go down the crapper........

With fingers crossed...

Matt

Well Matt, your job security just went up!

:cheers:

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Oh yeah, You know what I will be doing when I get back to Hurby......

:D

:D

Matt

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At least it keeps my former brother-in-law(not that I see him much anymore) employed, since he divides his time between the Hook plant and the Apache plant here in Mesa

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