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"Blunderbirds" get lost over skies of Washington


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The LT teaching our FRR classes last week worked this story into the slides quite nicely for the two AF gents in the back of the room. Thought you guys would enjoy it. Added the pic for "dramatic effect" so you can have a mental image when reading. :blink:

Funny Stuff :thumbsup: :blink:

thunderbird1.jpg

"Blunderbirds" get lost over DC !

That headline appeared on the (U.S.) Air Force Times in May ! Here's the full story from the May 24th edition of the Washington Post. :-

Wayward Thunderbirds Cause Air Scare

By Don Phillips and Thomas E. Ricks Washington Post Staff Writers, Wednesday, May 24, 2000.

The Air Force's precision flying team threw the Washington air traffic control system into confusion Monday morning when four of the eight-plane squadron unexpectedly fanned out in different directions in some of the country's busiest airspace and forced air traffic controllers to divert several civilian planes.

One member of the Thunderbirds, flying at 350 knots--about 390 mph--was heading toward a 3,500-foot ridge in the Blue Ridge Mountains before controllers determined his location and warned the pilot to climb immediately. Two of the team's planes, high-performance F-16s, apparently violated restricted airspace over Vice President Gore's house. Surprised air traffic controllers at Reagan National Airport and Dulles International Airport scrambled to get civilian airplanes out of the way and make radio contact with the F-16s. The Thunderbirds were supposed to simply fly in formation through the area on their way home to Nellis Air Force Base in Nevada.

At one point as the broken squadron flew west, controllers managed to warn an F-16 pilot flying at 3,000 feet that he was approaching the 3,500-foot Skyline Drive at high speed, ordering him to climb immediately to 6,000 feet. His speed of about 350 knots was apparently a violation of a Federal Aviation Administration 250-knot limit for low-level flights. Another F-16 was located inexplicably flying west over Fredericksburg, 50 miles south of the squadron's intended course.

At another point, controllers at Dulles ordered an American Airlines MD-80 to climb and make a 90-degree right turn, passing one mile horizontally and 700 feet vertically from one F-16. A private plane, a Mooney, passed an Air Force plane within 1.8 miles and 100 feet. Both are violations of the standard separation of three miles horizontally or 1,000 feet vertically. "It was chaos," one controller said yesterday. "I've never seen anything like that."

Eliot Brenner, a spokesman for the FAA, said the agency had "communicated our concern to the Air Force." Brenner said controllers did a masterful job under difficult circumstances, and that one F-16 pilot called and "assumed all responsibility and thanked our controllers for their professionalism."

"We're still piecing the story together," said Air Force Brig. Gen. Dave Moody, commander of the 57th Wing at Nellis Air Force Base. He said it was the first time he had ever seen the Thunderbirds fail to accomplish that type of departure.

Controllers' jobs were made unusually difficult because pilots on most of the squadron had not turned on their transponders, which allow controllers on the ground to identify planes on radar and determine their altitude. If the F-16s had remained in formation, only one transponder is necessary under FAA rules, but four of the planes flew far beyond the squad leader and his plane's transponder.

The FAA said the squadron began taking off from Andrews at 11:36 a.m. The flight plan of the squadron, buried in thick clouds, called for the aircraft to fly a mile or more apart in a straight line--called "ducks-in-a-row"--at 3,000 feet. Once airborne, they were to gather into two close formations. They were to be under the supervision of civilian controllers as they made their way home from a weekend of air shows.

The first four, including the jet piloted by squadron leader Lt. Col. John Venable, appeared to gather into a formation as planned and followed the prescribed course over National and Dulles. The Air Force said the squadron, which later made a stop at Scott Air Force base near St. Louis, was still en route to Nellis yesterday and its pilots may not be aware of the FAA's concerns.

As the aircraft passed over National, controllers noticed something odd. Scattered in the miles behind the formation were several large "primary radar hits"--meaning that several unidentified aircraft were in the area with no operating transponder.

When a radar beam hits an operating transponder, the device automatically reports the plane's identity, altitude and other information. Without a transponder, the plane shows up on radar screens as a bright blob called a "primary hit."

Brenner said a National controller asked, "You guys all together?" The squadron commander answered that they were. This apparent misunderstanding caused more confusion.

Meanwhile, F-16 No. 5, flown by Maj. Dean Wright, a former F-117 Stealth pilot, lost radar contact with the first four planes after takeoff, Moody said. "As a result, he flies a little bit to the northwest of Andrews," Moody said in an interview. "He becomes a little bit disoriented. He begins a slight climb."

Not all the data has been pulled together, he said, but it appears that Wright flew to the north of his planned route, apparently passing over Washington at about 3,000 feet and at a speed of about 350 knots. While that speed appears to be in excess of FAA rules for low-altitude flight in the area, Moody said, the Air Force is allowed to operate F-16s at higher speeds because the aircraft's flight manual calls for that.

The situation became more confused when air traffic controllers addressed Wright as "Thunderbird Four," rather than five, Moody said. "He doesn't know they're talking to him," Moody said, so Wright didn't answer.

Meanwhile, F-16 No. 6 had joined him. By the time controllers figured that the two F-16s were in the area and persuaded them to turn on their transponders, they were over Northwest Washington on a path that likely meant they had violated restricted airspace that includes the sky over the vice president's house.

F-16 No. 7, also without an operating transponder, flashed over Dulles and headed for the mountains. By the time the pilot tuned his transponder to an emergency frequency, a controller saw he was at 3,000 feet with a 3,500 ridge dead ahead. The controller ordered him to climb to 6,000 feet.

The last to take off, F-16 No. 8, somehow flew far to the south. Controllers finally located him flying west almost directly over Fredericksburg. Eventually, air traffic controllers directed the first six aircraft together at about 11,000 feet. The last two aircraft eventually joined the first six west of Dulles.

Moody emphasized yesterday that the Air Force isn't blaming the FAA for the problem. "The air traffic control guys did a super job," he said.

As for the Thunderbirds, Moody said he didn't see any clear need for a change in procedures. But he added, "We're going to look at our training programs and see if there is anything we can improve."

© 2000 The Washington Post Company

(June 2000 : Report forwarded by SIG member Tom Kolk, USA.)

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Well, they still are in the middle of airshow season right now. When they fly their last show for the year, then they can probably clear the backlog of image requests and exchanges. Plus it is a government operation anyway.

Concerning the Washington airspace bit, it might have been even crazier after 9/11 with the Air Defense Identification Zone around DC. Then you would have had gray F-15s and 16s being scrambled to intercept white ones.

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Refueled them back in July. They were about 15 minutes late and if we hadnt waiting for them at the Init Point, they would have had to divert as they didnt have the gas to continue to the actual air refueling point.

The reason I'm a bit ticked at them is that right after, I sent their PAO a bunch of pics from that flight as both D-models had backseaters and were interested in the photos I took, and vice versa. Needless to say, they are way too busy to reply to some low on the totumpole Boom Operator.

OK

I've thought this one over and this is what I think...

The Thuderclowns are a recruiting tool for the Air Force

The PAO's are there to support that mission

Since you are obvisouly already in, there is no need to contact you

Therefore

Their job is done! :D

All joking aside

I don't care what point in the season they are in. They aren't on the road the ENTIRE time. I'm sure they (like Jeff) have access to their emails while on the road. They could at least say THANK YOU (only requires two words to be typed and sent).

I think it's a crappy way to do business

And because of that

I say...

FLY NAVY!

nuff said

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Don't forget the Blues left a F-4J in the sand near ELP and flamed another out on the runway.

Slight problem with fuel management.

I can't speak for the one on the runway, however, I would like to point out that the one that went down near ELP was being flown by the Marine pilot (Vince Donile)...

Yup, lost one good Phantom and one good banana pellet dispensing machine on that day...

Cheers

John

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I can't speak for the one on the runway, however, I would like to point out that the one that went down near ELP was being flown by the Marine pilot (Vince Donile)...

Yup, lost one good Phantom and one good banana pellet dispensing machine on that day...

Cheers

John

Aye Matie, But who bee's the boss of the Blues? Be he Navy or Marine, difference it makes not.

Not a good thing to have a Phantom in the dirt and she has not fuel for a fire.

:cheers:

Kinda like ejecting and watching your plane flyby.........................................

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That really happened? That almost sounds too f***ed up to be true!

A little lost is one thing, but why did two of them need warnings from ATC that they were about to smack into a mountain range? How did they not see that- was visibility that bad?

I don't get it, but then again I only fly sims

-Mike

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It's just my .02, but unless you've been there, it's always easy to second guess from the comfort of your computer monitor. Fuel is always critical in any single seat jet - and even big jets as well. All of us who've flown have made mistakes - I haven't had a perfect flight in 30 years - most of us have been lucky that our mistakes were small, weren't seen, caught or caused a problem.

The sad thing about the PR flights is that they usually go to decidedly undeserving individuals who are simply "Well Known" and their flight would be much better given to someone who actually contributes to the military or their community... :thumbsup:

Hitch

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That really happened? That almost sounds too f***ed up to be true!

A little lost is one thing, but why did two of them need warnings from ATC that they were about to smack into a mountain range? How did they not see that- was visibility that bad?

I don't get it, but then again I only fly sims

-Mike

The answer, young grasshopper, lies within the source of your confusion!

Or, in plainer english, here's a quote buried in the eighth paragraph of the story (italics are mine) "The flight plan of the squadron, buried in thick clouds, called for the aircraft to fly a mile or more apart in a straight line..." Or in other words, "Let's spend sever paragraphs making them look stupid, then mention that visibility was crummy."

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Can't believe I'm actually going to defend the T-clones...

Again, there but for the grace of God go I. For one thing, although it is only mentioned VERY late in the article, the weather was terrible, and the Thunderbirds standard VFR departure was not executable. That meant they had to execute a trail departure, usually done with the RADAR to assist. Now, since most of the Thunderbirds did not previously fly F-16s, and since they get an incredibly SHORT checkout in the jet, most of the one's I've known will readily admit that working the RADAR is very low on their short list of priorities. In other words, its almost outright dangerous for them to have to use it during a trail departure.

Now before you get all huffy about THAT little tidbit, why SHOULD they bother spending much time learning how to work the RADAR? It has nothing to do with their job, and most of their time is spent trying to iron out their routine and hold a ridiculously close formation position. Hell, just looking forward is a big change for the 2 and 3 positions.

Second, the RADAR in the B30 T-clone jets is a tinker toy. It sucks. Couple that with the fact that, if you never look at it in a standard, day to day ops, and you don't know how to use it that well, odds of it working (correctly, if at all) are very low when you would need it. So there's a good chance that several of these jets had inop RADARs, which caused them to go lost wingman during the departure.

Now all of this is correctable, if you just fly the jet, fly the departure, etc. as Murph says. But if you're late to recognize it, this was not the briefed plan, etc. then the mitigating circumstances start to build up. In the end, its not terribly surprising that several went lost wingman. And that's a nasty little ball once it starts rolling, especially in a 6 or 8-ship. Airplanes can, and do, tend to start going all different directions over the sky to avoid hitting the closest piece of metal...namely, each other. Add to that the fact that the only guy normally squawking is #1, and you have a recipe for...well, for exactly what happened.

Mind you, I'm sure there were things that could've been corrected early in the sequence of events. There always are. But I wouldn't want to trade places with them, and think I could have done any better.

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Al Gore has not been Vice President for something on the order of 6 years, so this is obviously VERY old news, but still a serious situation. Ya'll ought not to criticize unless you have, "been there, done that" and are quite confident that you could have done better. As Waco and Murph have explained, there are a lot of things happening in a hurry in a jet and when you get into an unfamiliar situation, things deteriorate in a hurry. You can't just pull over to the curb, park and figure it out. :cheers:

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I'm tempted to snicker, but am brought up short--I'm not going to sneer at people who fly. I've only operated a cessna for a few minutes, and frankly was impressed with how much more there was than just the stick and rudder business. True enough, these guys are supposed to be some of the most precise people on earth; and they need to be--failure is costly, and far more tragic. And true enough; lots of us have lots of responsiblities (doctors, bus drivers, engineers, food service) where lives and treasure are at stake. But I've seen only mixed replies, tepid shrugs, and even dubious glances to the charge that the T-birds are somehow above the average fighter pilot. Further, since the average American is in an automobile accident less than every ten years (old figure--now with cell phones...?), and we've turned our highways into coldly efficient murder machines, costing us in less than two years what we lost in eight years in Vietnam, I think I'll reserve judgement at least until the T-bird's latest blunder involves fatalities.

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Can't believe I'm actually going to defend the T-clones...

Again, there but for the grace of God go I. For one thing, although it is only mentioned VERY late in the article, the weather was terrible, and the Thunderbirds standard VFR departure was not executable. That meant they had to execute a trail departure, usually done with the RADAR to assist. Now, since most of the Thunderbirds did not previously fly F-16s, and since they get an incredibly SHORT checkout in the jet, most of the one's I've known will readily admit that working the RADAR is very low on their short list of priorities. In other words, its almost outright dangerous for them to have to use it during a trail departure.

Now before you get all huffy about THAT little tidbit, why SHOULD they bother spending much time learning how to work the RADAR? It has nothing to do with their job, and most of their time is spent trying to iron out their routine and hold a ridiculously close formation position. Hell, just looking forward is a big change for the 2 and 3 positions.

Second, the RADAR in the B30 T-clone jets is a tinker toy. It sucks. Couple that with the fact that, if you never look at it in a standard, day to day ops, and you don't know how to use it that well, odds of it working (correctly, if at all) are very low when you would need it. So there's a good chance that several of these jets had inop RADARs, which caused them to go lost wingman during the departure.

Now all of this is correctable, if you just fly the jet, fly the departure, etc. as Murph says. But if you're late to recognize it, this was not the briefed plan, etc. then the mitigating circumstances start to build up. In the end, its not terribly surprising that several went lost wingman. And that's a nasty little ball once it starts rolling, especially in a 6 or 8-ship. Airplanes can, and do, tend to start going all different directions over the sky to avoid hitting the closest piece of metal...namely, each other. Add to that the fact that the only guy normally squawking is #1, and you have a recipe for...well, for exactly what happened.

Mind you, I'm sure there were things that could've been corrected early in the sequence of events. There always are. But I wouldn't want to trade places with them, and think I could have done any better.

As one who has done it...if you don't have a working radar, then you have NO right to be flying a radar trail departure. Launching out of K-Bay Hawaii on the last leg of a Trans-Pac, we launched into complete dog squeeze as Dash 3. Went into the goo at aobut 300 feet, broke out at 7,000. One of the dumbest things I've ever had the privledge of living through.

Tank

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[

Second, the RADAR in the B30 T-clone jets is a tinker toy. It sucks.

Hey Waco,

You might want to pull back from that statement a bit. Granted, the Viper is not "blessed" with a face-magnet on the order and magnitude of the F-15 or F-22..but the APG-68 certainly is "good enough" to fly a radar trail departure...even for an ex Eagle driver in a red suit.

I've done..oh I don't know..about 150 of them with this Radar..without ever getting lost or going lost wingman.

Pig out

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As one who has done it...if you don't have a working radar, then you have NO right to be flying a radar trail departure.

Tank,

I would disagree with you there. As somebody who has flown and taught (it's part of the SUPT syllabus) in both radar and non-radar equipped aircraft it's a "doable" procedure if (and that can be a big if) everybody is disciplined about flying briefed power settings, bank angles, airspeed, and timing. Was it easier in a radar equipped aircraft? Yes, but that has its own dangers as the sensor display just adds another distraction, sometimes fatal as Dean Martin's son found out. Generally the radar becomes a crutch to flying the proper procedures, and if the radar is taken away, for whatever reason, the results can be ugly.

Regards,

Murph

Edited by Murph
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