11bee Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 http://www.modelcarsmag.com/forums/topic/115472-done-with-archer-transfers/ So funny. It's cool to build all sorts of tanks and planes that have the iron cross / swastikas on them but ISIS is a no-go? Last I checked, the Nazi's body count was significantly higher than ISIS. Guessing that the USSR has a higher body count as well but I see lots of WW2 Soviet subjects being built. Heck, I'm building a Soviet AFV right now. Disclaimer - I don't support ISIS, they are cockroaches. But seriously guys.... Link to post Share on other sites
Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) I do understand where you're coming from...and yet something does feel different. Perhaps it's the past vs present? I wonder if the same concerns about building stuff with swastikas DURING WW2 would've been different than building them today? Although the full horror of what they'd done wasn't really fully grasped or believed by many before VE day. But, to show I see both sides, I loved MiGs even during the Cold War; granted, that was more of viewing an official nation than a gang of murderous thugs (though there were plenty of those in power in the USSR without a shadow of a doubt) but I also recognized that the Soviet people including their pilots were victims of the regime as well. So I think my thoughts were with the victims as much as anything.... Hmmm.... EDIT: Unless it was the brainchild of someone thinking there was a market for folks making DIORAMAS showing our forces in action against them? :unsure: Edited July 23, 2016 by Andrew D. the Jolly Rogers guy Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted July 23, 2016 Author Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) I do understand where you're coming from...and yet something does feel different. Perhaps it's the past vs present? I was a grunt at the very end of the cold war but I still built some models of T-80's and T-72's even though if WW3 started, I would have probably been crushed by their tracks in a foxhole in W. Germany. I see no issue with building a model of the "bad guys". ISIS sucks, I get it. But still, it's a hobby. If someone builds a model of an ISIS technical or whatever the heck they are driving and uses it to support their f'd-up idealogy, that's one thing but otherwise, I just don't see this being anything to get worked up over. I've seen some great models of MiG's that have kill markings representing US aircraft shot down. I'm not losing any sleep over them (unless they botched the NMF finish, which is a huge pet peeve of mine). Edited July 23, 2016 by 11bee Link to post Share on other sites
Johnopfor Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) Gee.......what ever happened to "If you don't like it, don't buy it"? It's sad to see someone drag politics into modeling by faking butt-hurt over a bunch of prop flags. I can see it if the proceeds were going to the local chapter of the Suicide Vest Scouts of Syria, but please......... :doh:/> Edited July 23, 2016 by Johnopfor Link to post Share on other sites
rustywelder Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 An overreaction to something trivial on that site?..... Must be a day ending in Y. You should have seen the S storm when mpc announced they were going to stop putting the stars and bars in General Lee kits. Link to post Share on other sites
kenlilly106 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) Gee.......what ever happened to "If you don't like it, don't buy it"? It's been replaced with "I don't like it so I don't want anyone else to have a chance to buy it!" :rolleyes:/> Ken Edited July 23, 2016 by kenlilly106 Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Not much that can really be added that hasn't already. Bottom line if you don't like building or viewing models that contain certain symbols then golly gee I guess you shouldn't then. But don't look down your nose or hop up on a soapbox to preach at others who do. Modeling subjects with controversial symbols on them isn't an acknowledgement for or against the regime(s) said symbol represents. History happens and the swastika, rising sun, confederate flag, hammer and sickle, ISIS scrawlings etc etc are part of that history. Its a modeling choice, simple as that. But I guess that's too easy for some... My two cents. Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 (edited) i really don't like ISIS (DAESH) nor any Islamic group (whether they are allegedly "rebels" or "terrorists") i will never model any subjects related to them... not my cup of tea anyway. but when i receive my Archer email update yesterday and saw some ISIS flags... it didn't bother me at all! (Ukrainian flags, Russian flags, ISIS flags... just updating to current conflicts) the idea that someone could have thought, that it could have been some sort of ISIS glorification, never even cross by far my mind!!! hey, i'm a big fan of soviet hardware (and now Russian) but in no way i ever though that it would have been great to live in Soviet Union.(Russia is a beautiful country but a place i couldn't live in for the moment...) i'm Canadian. proud to be. and think i'm of the luckiest of the world. i did 6 years in Canadian forces... but still prefers my plastic models with soviet stars! i think that some great guys might have preference for Luftwaffe stuff with swastika and still have no sympathy to nazi ideology... (i really hope it exist!...cos i've seen too many models with swastika on it...) same thing should apply to ISIS related scale modeling subjects... Edited July 23, 2016 by mingwin Link to post Share on other sites
yardbird78 Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 I pretty much echo the sentiments expressed above. If you don't like ISIS and what they stand for, go on to something else. The idea of building "technicals" using different vehicles and weapons opens up quite a variety of model possibilities. Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 It's too soon! General Lee from dukes of hazard is out then presumably too? Funny what people get their kNickers knotted over. Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 It's too soon! General Lee from dukes of hazard is out then presumably too? Funny what people get their kNickers knotted over. Yep, if the "Dukes" were done today there'd be no Confederate Flag on the roof... Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 23, 2016 Share Posted July 23, 2016 Yep, if the "Dukes" were done today there'd be no Confederate Flag on the roof... That's such a car model staple too Link to post Share on other sites
DarkKnight Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 I hate terrorists, but if the flag is needed for historical accuracy so be it, actually it would be funny to make the isis plumbers truck, apparently some guy traded in his work truck with his name and phone number painted on the side , the truck somehow got sold to ISIS and shipped to the middle east, he started getting pissed off people calling him al the time as they left his name and number on the door Link to post Share on other sites
zerosystem Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) Stop me if you've heard this one from me before: Back when I used to work in a shop we had one of the Arii 1/48 Scud kits. It was the one with the crumbled Iraqi city in the background and a in the background was a mural of Saddam painted on the wall of a building. Our shop was in a mall so you'd get occasional passers by coming in. There was a woman who came in browsing and saw the kit, grabbed it and brought it up to the counter asking if this was supposed to be Iraq...the same Iraq that there was an unjust war waged against. I said it was and Iraqi vehicle and stopped there, she demanded that we take it down from the shelves and not ever sell anything like that again and demanded that we make note of it. She totally missed the point about it being a Scud...in Iraq, during the Iran/Iraq war, and that Saddam just happened to be a brutal dictator. The other guy working with me just looked at me and rolled his eyes. When she eventually did leave we just exchanged looks. I told my boss this at the time and we put it right on the display counter for future interest. Well she came back a week or two later and saw it and demanded to talk to the manager...gave her the card and said have a nice day. Story short, some people just have a bug up there butts. Edited July 24, 2016 by zerosystem Link to post Share on other sites
Ryan Hothersall Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Seems some people are too easily offended. I've built a few Syrian MiGs that have been used in the current civil unrest there and no one has said anything to me about it. One of my recent builds was a Libyan MiG-21 in the current day Libyan markings. No time to be offended as there are too many modeling ideas with what's going on around the world. Link to post Share on other sites
Sir Fondlebottom Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 The removal of the confederate flag from General Lee kits pisses me off to be honest, while an ISIS modelling subject barely register. Link to post Share on other sites
mingwin Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 The removal of the confederate flag from General Lee kits pisses me off to be honest, while an ISIS modelling subject barely register. maybe it has something to do with something that was never really correctly addressed in USA...(maybe the confederate flag should have never been on a car on a TV show at first...) i would understand that the Archer fine transfers with ISIS flags could be problematic... in Iraq, Syria, Libya...and near all the places someone committed atrocities in the name of ISIS... Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) maybe it has something to do with something that was never really correctly addressed in USA...(maybe the confederate flag should have never been on a car on a TV show at first...) The Confederate flag is no less a part of history then any other symbol (and no less controversial then most). If its o.k. to put swastikas, Red Stars, hammer and sickles, rising suns, or ISIS markings etc on a model or on movie or TV vehicles/props then the Confederate flag should be accorded the same. The orange 01 General Lee in the Dukes of Hazzard with the Confederate flag on its roof is an iconic symbolic in its own right. Should it have been placed on the car in the first place? That's a whole different discussion and it opens the floor up to debating many symbols used in popular culture and not just the Confederate flag. But the fact is from a modeling perspective it was used, the TV show existed, the TV show can be watched by anyone at anytime, so the Confederate flag should be included in kits of the General Lee. If people don't like it...well as has been written here by most...don't buy the model, don't build the model, and walk on by if you see a model built by someone else. Edited July 24, 2016 by Don Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) The removal of the confederate flag from General Lee kits pisses me off to be honest, It's as silly as the German ban on swastika decals. I guess seeing a swastika on a 1/48th Bf-109 would inspire 16-year old Helmut Muller to become the next Fuhrer? I've got no use for confederate flag but again.. it's a freakin' model. Edited July 24, 2016 by 11bee Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 (edited) maybe it has something to do with something that was never really correctly addressed in USA...(maybe the confederate flag should have never been on a car on a TV show at first...) Not a big fan of censoring history myself. I don't expect you to understand. It's also a first amendment issue. Edited July 24, 2016 by TaiidanTomcat Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Not a big fan of censoring history myself. +1000 Link to post Share on other sites
TaiidanTomcat Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 The Confederate flag is no less a part of history then any other symbol (and no less controversial then most). If its o.k. to put swastikas, Red Stars, hammer and sickles, rising suns, or ISIS markings etc on a model or on movie or TV vehicles/props then the Confederate flag should be accorded the same. The orange 01 General Lee in the Dukes of Hazzard with the Confederate flag on its roof is an iconic symbolic in its own right. Should it have been placed on the car in the first place? That's a whole different discussion and it opens the floor up to debating many symbols used in popular culture and not just the Confederate flag. But the fact is from a modeling perspective it was used, the TV show existed, the TV show can be watched by anyone at anytime, so the Confederate flag should be included in kits of the General Lee. If people don't like it...well as has been written here by most...don't buy the model, don't build the model, and walk on by if you see a model built by someone else. Tolerance vs tolerance Tolerance- I don't like that, but it's ok and a part of being free. I will see thinges and hear things I don't like but that's ok. Millions of people practice this everyday. Vs Tolerance!- I see something I don't like. Declare it wrong because it disagrees with my beliefs and I kick and scream and hurl labels on people until I get what I want and it's banned or at least censored by an authority of some kind, since real tolerance is the only moral way, and its my narrow brand only. These are the loud miniority, that are slowly erroding our fundental rights of freedom speech. Link to post Share on other sites
Don Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 Tolerance vs tolerance Tolerance- I don't like that, but it's ok and a part of being free. I will see things and hear things I don't like but that's ok. Millions of people practice this everyday. Vs Tolerance!- I see something I don't like. Declare it wrong because it disagrees with my beliefs and I kick and scream and hurl labels on people until I get what I want and it's banned or at least censored by an authority of some kind, since real tolerance is the only moral way, and its my narrow brand only. These are the loud minority, that are slowly eroding our fundamental rights of freedom speech. There it is ^^^ I couldn't have written it better myself. Completely agree. Link to post Share on other sites
Dave Roof Posted July 24, 2016 Share Posted July 24, 2016 The removal of the confederate flag from General Lee kits pisses me off to be honest, while an ISIS modelling subject barely register. First, and to get technical, a Confederate Flag was never on the General Lee......well, not an official flag of the Confederacy. The Battle Flag of Northern Virginia was on the General Lee. Second, the flag decal is still in the kits. It just isn't shown on the box top. Link to post Share on other sites
11bee Posted July 24, 2016 Author Share Posted July 24, 2016 First, and to get technical, a Confederate Flag was never on the General Lee......well, not an official flag of the Confederacy. The Battle Flag of Northern Virginia was on the General Lee. Thank god they eliminated the flag from the box art but to be honest, I'm pretty uncomfortable with the name of that car. Suggest they reissue the kit with the stars and stripes and change the name to "The General Grant". Link to post Share on other sites
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