A-6A with AVQ-10 Pave Knife pod

[JEN722]

I am currently working on the first of my HB 1/48 A-6 Intruders. I want to finish it as one of the few Pave Knife pod equipped airframes. However, it appears from the few photographs I have found that the pod is closer to the fuselage and less nose-down than it would be if fitted to the standard centreline pylon.

So, do any of you have any information on how the AVQ-10 Pave Knife pod was fitted to the A-6 - or even better, pictures showing the pod-to-pylon interface?

TIA,

Jens

[ReccePhreak]

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Edited June 19, 2016 by ReccePhreak

[metroman]

We must have similiar good taste, here is what I did earlier this year with mine... Can't help ya with the specifics you're requesting on pylons, I used multiple books plus the Swordsmens post-cruise debrief wherein the comments were just simply "pod mounted to centerline pylon". I used the Hasegawa pod with decals from Furballs 'Nam Intruders sheet since it was far superior in quality. Enjoy!

[Finn]

Here is the Pave Knife pod, on top are the two lugs, 30 apart, that fit into the hooks of the bomb rack on the c/l pylon like any other store:

http://www.air-and-space.com/20020625%20China%20Lake/DCP00491%20Pave%20Knife%20laser%20designator%20pod%20l.jpg

Some info on its use in Vietnam:

http://www.chinalakemuseum.org/secretcitystories/Paveknife.pdf

edit: here is another pic:

http://airandspace.si.edu/webimages/highres/11438h.jpg

Jari

Edited August 28, 2015 by Finn

[JEN722]

Thanks for the help!

Larry, I have now ordered the book (but I managed to find at least some of the pages online so I have copied those pictures for reference until the book arrives).

Metroman, I have seen your build already - and what a beauty it is - but you don't show the pylon to pod attachment. Teasing like that is not nice. ;)

Jens

[kellyF15]

I really like his build, and just for future reference, what is the time frame for this loadout?

[JEN722]

Vietnam War, although a couple of A-6Es were modified too. I'm not sure how much the pod was used after the war.

Jens

[metroman]

It's just on two sway braces on the kits centerline pylong, that's it - it's very hard to see in person and consequentially didn't become a big deal right or wrong.

Jan '72 cruise IIRC

Edited August 29, 2015 by metroman

[Finn]

Here is another pic showing the pod loaded on a VA-145 a/c:

http://www.chinalakealumni.org/1973/SL-060160.jpg

To get nose down or up all you have to do is adjust the lugs, they screw in so if you have the back lug up higher the pod sits nose high. Normally both lugs would be the same to have teh pod level. Here is a video of the pod being used by the USAF:

at the 20 sec mark you can see it about to be loaded on a F-4, the pod just connects to the rack in the pylon and then the electrical connection is made. No adaptor is needed and you can barely see anything between the pod and pod aside from the lugs and electrical connector.

Jari

[11bee]

Did this aircraft carry it's own LGB's or did it designate for others? Interesting subject, didn't know the USN was in the laser guided bombing business during the Vietnam War. Thought that was exclusively USAF territory.

[Andre]

Did this aircraft carry it's own LGB's or did it designate for others?

Both.

Interesting subject, didn't know the USN was in the laser guided bombing business during the Vietnam War. Thought that was exclusively USAF territory.

VA-164's Skyhawks got in the LGB game as well during their 1973 cruise - see here.

Cheers,

Andre

Edited August 30, 2015 by Andre

[ziggyfoos]

Marines did too. VMA(AW)-225 did evals with LGBs with their Intruders late 1970/early 1971.

[Fly-n-hi]

Cool thread! Very interesting! Thanks for all the info and links!

I built up a couple of the Pave Knife pods from the Hasegawa Weapons Set C in both the Navy and AF colors. I never actually used them I just though it would be cool to build them:

[Brian J]

As others have commented...a very interesting thread! Are any photos or information available to show what kind of weapons could be carried on Navy A-6's while using the Pave Knife pod? I plan on using the Furball decal sheet that Metroman used. He did a great job on his build-up. I'd like to have as large a weapons load as possible. Love all that ordinance hanging from the pylons!

[Andre]

Are any photos or information available to show what kind of weapons could be carried on Navy A-6's while using the Pave Knife pod?

Paveway I - GBU-12 500-pound and GBU-10 2000-pound variants.

HTH,

Andre

[Brian J]

Thanks for your quick response, Andre. Would the weapons load only be two bombs as seen in the photos of the model or could more be carried? I'm thinking of a load out on TERs or MERs. I'd like to put as many as possible i.e. loaded for bear!

[Finn]

Read the pdf file i posted above and it says they carried 2000lb LGBs along with the pod, and most likely 2 external tanks, then when they would buddy lase they switched to 1000lb LGBs so they could return to the carrier with them if no targets were found.

Jari

[metroman]

2 x Paveway I 2,000 lb or 2 x Paveway I 500 lb according to the post-cruise VA-145 debrief I found online, + 2 x gas bags

[Brian J]

Thanks again, Jari and Metroman for your advice. That was a very informative read that was suggested earlier. Got one more question. It has to do with kit cockpit mods. That Paveknife article indicated that, "The A-6A installation included a TV screen in the cockpit for the B/N's use and the necessary hand-held controls to operate the system". I'm sure the Hobby Craft kit would not have included that in their cockpit. Was it very noticeable and are any references available that would show this add on?

[Finn]

Brian since only a limited number of airframes were modified with the system probably not many pics out showing how the IP was changed to add the TV screen however this pic of a Pave Knife F-4D (on the right):

http://sistemasdearmas.com.br/pgm/lgbvietzot.jpg

shows the hood for what must be the screen, on the left of the image, no doubt the A-6 had a hood as well. It most likely would be somewhere directly in front of the B/N's position, perhaps above the radar screen. As for the contoller, maybe they used the same controller for the radar?

Jari

[mrvark]

Sierra Hotel had on display at the Columbus IPMS Nationals prototypes of sets they're preparing that will include both accurate PAVE Knife pods along with modified instrument panels for both the F-4D and A-6A in 1:48 & 1:32. That said, they haven't shown up on their web site yet. :(

[Brian J]

Spent the past couple of hours searching the internet for verification on the markings for the three A-6s that carried the Pave Knife targeting pod. VA-145 flew off the USS Ranger on two cruises, Oct 1970-June 1971 and Nov 1972-June 1973. The targeting pods in question were used on the last cruise. Markings were similar on both cruises with the exception of the 5xx series nose modex, the carrier name above the word NAVY on the fuselage and the unit number above the fuselage star and bar. From what I can find, these markings were in a block type font on the first Ranger cruise and at a rearward slanted angle on the second Ranger cruise.

Earlier this year, a fellow member, Tom, suggested I go to www.navysite.de/cruisebooks to check for photo references on another subject. A great source of information! I checked the 1972/73 Ranger cruise book and found two b&w photos of A-6s, NE524 and NE501 which both had that slanted font.

I have only been able to find photos of one aircraft that carried the targeting pod, NE504 and it had the above mentioned slanted markings. These correct markings are included on the 1/32 Zotz decal sheet 32/061 as well as a 1/72 Wolfpack decal sheet. It appears (I may be mistaken as I have not received my Furball decal sheet yet) that the Furball sheet has the block type font as seen on the model in this thread. Has anyone seen photos of the other two A-6s that carried the targeting pod in question that would verify the markings on the Furball sheet?

Can anyone add to and perhaps clarify my observations if I am mistaken in my conclusions?

Edited August 31, 2015 by Brian J.

[ziggyfoos]

Markings were similar on both cruises with the exception of the 5xx series nose modex, the carrier name above the word NAVY on the fuselage and the unit number above the fuselage star and bar. From what I can find, these markings were in a block type font on the first Ranger cruise and at a rearward slanted angle on the second Ranger cruise.

From what I've seen the markings between those two cruises are very much different from each other: the 72-73 cruise had the sword on the tail while the earlier 70-71 cruise the tail had the three green stripes design.

Also, the 70-71 cruise used the slanted letters too.

[Finn]

Here is another pic of a VA-145 a/c:

http://uss-rangerguy.com/Gary_Reynolds/slides/ject45.html

the caption says it was taken during the 72-73 cruise.

Jari

[mrvark]

The three A-6As were NE503 155711, NE504 155714, and NE505 155715. I have a pic of the latter with a back-slanted modex, AN/AVQ-10 on the CL, inboard slow-speed Mk 82 LGB (with the fin and wing extensions) and outboard MERs with conical finned NTP Mk 82 Mod 1s (single yellow band at front of nose) loaded in a slant-four configuration. Will post it when I get home tonight, if I remember! :)