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Questions Regarding Using Black Paint As Part Of An A/C Paint Scheme


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When painting the SEA camo scheme on an F-111, an AC-130, and a B-52 with a black underside color, would I need to scale down the color?

I've read about scaling down black when painting other parts (Tires, joystick handles, IP top, etc) .

If so; What would be a correct gradation of said color?

While I'm on the subject; I've read somewhere that a color 'Tire Black' or something like that is a good bottled scaled down shade for doing parts that need to be painted black. Can someone clarify or correct this info?

Thanks much 377.gif !

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There's no wrong answer so I take some artistic license.

I like to use a very dark grey like interior black or Tamiya NATO black than weather select areas darker. Tinges of blue can look nice.

I'd just caution to avoid a frosted look, which can happen when post-shading with lighter greys or using some flat coats.

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Like Toadwbg I prefer to use Tamiya's FX-69 Nato Black over their FX-1 Black. It's almost a very dark gray, and in scale looks more realistic. For tires I mix it with a few drops of Dark gray so it's a shade or two grayer. Will have to add a drop of two of dark Blue to see how that effects the over all color.

Joel

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Like Toadwbg I prefer to use Tamiya's FX-69 Nato Black over their FX-1 Black. It's almost a very dark gray, and in scale looks more realistic. For tires I mix it with a few drops of Dark gray so it's a shade or two grayer. Will have to add a drop of two of dark Blue to see how that effects the over all color.

Joel

So Tamiya's FX-69 NATO Black would be an accurate shade for doing the underside of an F-111F, then?

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Check Six,

Yes and no. Personally, that's the way I would go with painting the bottom. Others would opt to go with flat Black. What I would suggest is just compare the two colors side by side painted on a piece of scrap plastic, then you'll really see the difference. With all that being said, unless you're doing a spanking brand new painted F-111, you're going to be weathering it, and those washes, will flatten, soften, change the tone of each color.

Joel

Edited by Joel_W
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So Tamiya's FX-69 NATO Black would be an accurate shade for doing the underside of an F-111F, then?

Forget accuracy. Do what looks good to you and captures the eye. NATO black is just a suggestion for a starting point.

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Model Master interior black is also a good scale down black, should you choose. It's really nothing more than very dark grey. It's really how you feel about the look; there's not right/wrong answer to this one.

Also, could be wrong, but I think the scheme you referring to had gloss black underneath. If it were up to me, semi gloss to satin would be just about right on the models.

Cheers

Triet

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I use Model Master Interior black. It is really a very dark grey, I use it as the base coat. I'll lighten it will a drop or two engine grey or darken it a drop of black to spray individual panels or parts. I don't use straight black anymore. Except, for some small parts.

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F14tomcat,

I have a bottle of MM Interior Black, it's basically the same shade of very dark gray as Tamiya's Nato Black. All I use flat black for these days (till I use up both bottles), is for small detail parts in the cockpit but not the IP.

Joel

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Joel, don't Tamiya.. Enamel guy here. Been using MM IB since it came out. Have areal beaten up 1/72 Do217n-1 done in all over black scheme. Sprayed it IB then using post it note masked off panels. Sprayed either lighter or darker panels. Came out pretty good.

Wayne

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f14tomcat,

Nothing wrong with enamels. I use to use nothing but them back in the 70's, but since I got back into modeling, I've made a commitment to using Acrylics whenever possible.

Joel

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Steven,

I just read that article, and it has its positive points, but to me it's concept is somewhat flawed. 1st and foremost, we're trying to duplicate to the best of our ability a particular aircraft. Being modelers, we try to use the closest match to the original colors before weathering, so we can take fading and weathered paint out of the equation for now. If you're building an aircraft that was painted with FS standard colors, then simply match that color chip to the best of your ability. Notice that I didn't say just use a brand of paint that color is labeled FSXXXXX. You might need to adjust the intensity of the color. For darker colors I usually lighten them up just a tad to adjust for the scale effect. Hence, the use of a very dark gray rather then flat black.

As for using ones eye as the determinating factor, we all see colors somewhat differently. And if we're using our computer monitors as the primary viewing medium for colors, most monitors are not color corrected, so what you may deem as nearly perfect, can be off to some degree. You would be very surprised to see the difference from a uncalibrated monitor to a calibrated one. I'm not talking using the graphic cards options, but rather a professional tool such as the Color Monkey.

The bottom line is just how important the actual color is to the builder.

The example of a tire doesn't work for a few reasons. He's not describing his perception of a tires color, but more of a worn tire. If you're building a new, pristine aircraft, that would be incorrect. The tire would be one basic color. The variations would be from dirt and or weathering. The base color is a educated guess by the paint companies and the builder to what actually looks like tire gray. No tire that I've ever seen is pure black.

Joel

Edited by Joel_W
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Joel, scale effect is the reason I use the MM IB. Otherwise, it looks like a black hole. I tried adding white to my white for scale effect. It didn't seem to work!

Wayne

Very tongue in cheek, diving for the bunker! ;-)

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just picked up Tamiya XF-69 and MM Interior Black.

When I got home I noticed that the Tamiya paint is acrylic.

Am I going to have a problem if I use it as a base layer since I use enamel paint for all base colors?

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Shouldn't be a problem using Tamiya FX69 as a base color, just make sure it dries completely.

Joel

So if I paint the underside of an F-111A FX-69 but use MM enamels to do the SEA camo scheme on top, I won't have any problems when sealing?

BTW; I haven't decided what I will use to seal the paint scheme before weathering.

Regarding paint drying:

I let paint schemes dry for 10+ days. I put the painted model in a closed box (Dust prevention) and on a high shelf and let it dry.

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Check Six,

The Tamiya Acrylics dry in a few hours, and rock hard after 24 hours. I've shot enamel and lacquer based paints on top of Tamiya acrylics without a single issue. I use to seal them with Testors Glosscoat for decaling. Now I use Future/Pledge. And if the Glosscoat had no effect, enamels sure won't.

I thin Tamiya's Acrylics with their yellow cap Lacquer thinner rather then their X20-A acrylic thinner. thinned correctly, you'll love using them.

Joel

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Ah cool.

Thanks for the tips and recommendation 271.gif .

BTW; How old is the oldest model paint job that you sealed/used Future on?

I was reading a thread recently of the possibility of Future yellowing over time and that has me a little spooked.

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I started using Pledge more then three years ago. No yellowing issues. I've heard that If you leave any model in direct sunlight, eventually what ever clear coat is on it will start to yellow. I've seen non sealed decals have their clear film yellow over several years. Exposure to direct sunlight greatly speeds up that process.

Joel

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