Check Six Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 When painting the SEA camo scheme on an F-111, an AC-130, and a B-52 with a black underside color, would I need to scale down the color? I've read about scaling down black when painting other parts (Tires, joystick handles, IP top, etc) . If so; What would be a correct gradation of said color? While I'm on the subject; I've read somewhere that a color 'Tire Black' or something like that is a good bottled scaled down shade for doing parts that need to be painted black. Can someone clarify or correct this info? Thanks much ! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
metroman Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 (edited) Here's what I use, darkened a bit with straight black subtly here and there between panels... http://i1221.photobucket.com/albums/dd470/metromanbw/C137_zps1a6e23c4.jpg Edited July 14, 2014 by metroman Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted July 14, 2014 Share Posted July 14, 2014 There's no wrong answer so I take some artistic license. I like to use a very dark grey like interior black or Tamiya NATO black than weather select areas darker. Tinges of blue can look nice. I'd just caution to avoid a frosted look, which can happen when post-shading with lighter greys or using some flat coats. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted July 15, 2014 Share Posted July 15, 2014 Like Toadwbg I prefer to use Tamiya's FX-69 Nato Black over their FX-1 Black. It's almost a very dark gray, and in scale looks more realistic. For tires I mix it with a few drops of Dark gray so it's a shade or two grayer. Will have to add a drop of two of dark Blue to see how that effects the over all color. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Check Six Posted July 16, 2014 Author Share Posted July 16, 2014 Like Toadwbg I prefer to use Tamiya's FX-69 Nato Black over their FX-1 Black. It's almost a very dark gray, and in scale looks more realistic. For tires I mix it with a few drops of Dark gray so it's a shade or two grayer. Will have to add a drop of two of dark Blue to see how that effects the over all color. Joel So Tamiya's FX-69 NATO Black would be an accurate shade for doing the underside of an F-111F, then? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted July 16, 2014 Share Posted July 16, 2014 (edited) Check Six, Yes and no. Personally, that's the way I would go with painting the bottom. Others would opt to go with flat Black. What I would suggest is just compare the two colors side by side painted on a piece of scrap plastic, then you'll really see the difference. With all that being said, unless you're doing a spanking brand new painted F-111, you're going to be weathering it, and those washes, will flatten, soften, change the tone of each color. Joel Edited July 16, 2014 by Joel_W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
toadwbg Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 So Tamiya's FX-69 NATO Black would be an accurate shade for doing the underside of an F-111F, then? Forget accuracy. Do what looks good to you and captures the eye. NATO black is just a suggestion for a starting point. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
trietmcam Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Model Master interior black is also a good scale down black, should you choose. It's really nothing more than very dark grey. It's really how you feel about the look; there's not right/wrong answer to this one. Also, could be wrong, but I think the scheme you referring to had gloss black underneath. If it were up to me, semi gloss to satin would be just about right on the models. Cheers Triet Quote Link to post Share on other sites
carlizle84 Posted July 18, 2014 Share Posted July 18, 2014 David Aungst's U-2 has a great section on painting it black and weathering it. http://hsfeatures.com/features04/u2sdwa_3.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites
f14tomcat Posted July 24, 2014 Share Posted July 24, 2014 I use Model Master Interior black. It is really a very dark grey, I use it as the base coat. I'll lighten it will a drop or two engine grey or darken it a drop of black to spray individual panels or parts. I don't use straight black anymore. Except, for some small parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted July 25, 2014 Share Posted July 25, 2014 F14tomcat, I have a bottle of MM Interior Black, it's basically the same shade of very dark gray as Tamiya's Nato Black. All I use flat black for these days (till I use up both bottles), is for small detail parts in the cockpit but not the IP. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
f14tomcat Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Joel, don't Tamiya.. Enamel guy here. Been using MM IB since it came out. Have areal beaten up 1/72 Do217n-1 done in all over black scheme. Sprayed it IB then using post it note masked off panels. Sprayed either lighter or darker panels. Came out pretty good. Wayne Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 f14tomcat, Nothing wrong with enamels. I use to use nothing but them back in the 70's, but since I got back into modeling, I've made a commitment to using Acrylics whenever possible. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dnl42 Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Funny, MM Interior Black is my goto black color. I thought it was just me... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
thegoodsgt Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Here's my advice. http://www.scalemodelsoup.com/2014/07/the-best-painting-tip-ever.html Bottom line, trust your eye. Steven Brown Scale Model Soup Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 (edited) Steven, I just read that article, and it has its positive points, but to me it's concept is somewhat flawed. 1st and foremost, we're trying to duplicate to the best of our ability a particular aircraft. Being modelers, we try to use the closest match to the original colors before weathering, so we can take fading and weathered paint out of the equation for now. If you're building an aircraft that was painted with FS standard colors, then simply match that color chip to the best of your ability. Notice that I didn't say just use a brand of paint that color is labeled FSXXXXX. You might need to adjust the intensity of the color. For darker colors I usually lighten them up just a tad to adjust for the scale effect. Hence, the use of a very dark gray rather then flat black. As for using ones eye as the determinating factor, we all see colors somewhat differently. And if we're using our computer monitors as the primary viewing medium for colors, most monitors are not color corrected, so what you may deem as nearly perfect, can be off to some degree. You would be very surprised to see the difference from a uncalibrated monitor to a calibrated one. I'm not talking using the graphic cards options, but rather a professional tool such as the Color Monkey. The bottom line is just how important the actual color is to the builder. The example of a tire doesn't work for a few reasons. He's not describing his perception of a tires color, but more of a worn tire. If you're building a new, pristine aircraft, that would be incorrect. The tire would be one basic color. The variations would be from dirt and or weathering. The base color is a educated guess by the paint companies and the builder to what actually looks like tire gray. No tire that I've ever seen is pure black. Joel Edited July 27, 2014 by Joel_W Quote Link to post Share on other sites
f14tomcat Posted July 27, 2014 Share Posted July 27, 2014 Joel, scale effect is the reason I use the MM IB. Otherwise, it looks like a black hole. I tried adding white to my white for scale effect. It didn't seem to work! Wayne Very tongue in cheek, diving for the bunker! ;-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Check Six Posted August 9, 2014 Author Share Posted August 9, 2014 I just picked up Tamiya XF-69 and MM Interior Black. When I got home I noticed that the Tamiya paint is acrylic. Am I going to have a problem if I use it as a base layer since I use enamel paint for all base colors? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Shouldn't be a problem using Tamiya FX69 as a base color, just make sure it dries completely. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Check Six Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 Shouldn't be a problem using Tamiya FX69 as a base color, just make sure it dries completely. Joel So if I paint the underside of an F-111A FX-69 but use MM enamels to do the SEA camo scheme on top, I won't have any problems when sealing? BTW; I haven't decided what I will use to seal the paint scheme before weathering. Regarding paint drying: I let paint schemes dry for 10+ days. I put the painted model in a closed box (Dust prevention) and on a high shelf and let it dry. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 Check Six, The Tamiya Acrylics dry in a few hours, and rock hard after 24 hours. I've shot enamel and lacquer based paints on top of Tamiya acrylics without a single issue. I use to seal them with Testors Glosscoat for decaling. Now I use Future/Pledge. And if the Glosscoat had no effect, enamels sure won't. I thin Tamiya's Acrylics with their yellow cap Lacquer thinner rather then their X20-A acrylic thinner. thinned correctly, you'll love using them. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Check Six Posted August 10, 2014 Author Share Posted August 10, 2014 Ah cool. Thanks for the tips and recommendation . BTW; How old is the oldest model paint job that you sealed/used Future on? I was reading a thread recently of the possibility of Future yellowing over time and that has me a little spooked. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Joel_W Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 I started using Pledge more then three years ago. No yellowing issues. I've heard that If you leave any model in direct sunlight, eventually what ever clear coat is on it will start to yellow. I've seen non sealed decals have their clear film yellow over several years. Exposure to direct sunlight greatly speeds up that process. Joel Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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