Tamiya FW-190D-9 Paint help

[Kurt H.]

I decided I wanted a change of pace and I figured I would try a Luftwaffe subject. I visited the LHS and found a Tamiya FW-190D-9 . Unfortunately Tamiya only gives the spray paint color codes. I want to build it with the "stag 10" which on the box side looks like it is a light blue, a dark grey, and maybe two other colors on the wings.

I prefer to use MM so if any one who is more familiar with Luftwaffe colors could help me with the RLM paint codes, I would greatly appreciate it.

[Hal Marshman Sr]

Sounds t0o me like the undersides and fuselage sides want to be RLM76, with the upper camo RLM75 Gray and RLM83 green . (IIRC, Mon Mast) bottles the green as RLM82. In any case, it's the darker of the 2 shades they bottle. Prop wans to be RLM70, Black Green, but Mod Mast's RLM70 is way off.

[billw]

I decided I wanted a change of pace and I figured I would try a Luftwaffe subject. I visited the LHS and found a Tamiya FW-190D-9 . Unfortunately Tamiya only gives the spray paint color codes. I want to build it with the "stag 10" which on the box side looks like it is a light blue, a dark grey, and maybe two other colors on the wings.

I prefer to use MM so if any one who is more familiar with Luftwaffe colors could help me with the RLM paint codes, I would greatly appreciate it.

Some earlier 109D-9's were the standard RLM 74 & 75 over RLM 76 light blue-grey. Many late war D-9's were RLM 75 grey & RLM 83 Dark Green over RLM 76, and it was common for the main part of the undersurface of the wing to be in natural metal. Some will probably question the accuracy of Model Master Luftwaffe colors, but they are close enough for me & I use them a lot. Also, note that according to some newer research that RLM 82 is a light green & RLM 83 would be a dark green, and that the Model Master line has the numbering on these two colors reversed. Hope this helps.

BW

[G.R.Morrison]

So, pokin' at the hornet's nest, hmmm? Or, as Dante might advise, "Lasciate ogni speranza voi ch'entrate."

The 'Dora' was built by a number of manufacturers, and thus you can find variation in cross and Hakenkreuz style and size. By this stage of the war many components were subcontracted and arrived from their production facility already painted, thus the engines arrived enclosed in their cowls, already painted by Junkers, The tails arrived, already painted with camouflage spots, etc. The wing undersides... many variations, some (earlier) machines were RLM 76, but some had their leading edges painted in a darker (RLM 75) gray, some with unpainted areas. Depending on how 'careful' (readers may substitute other words) you wish to be, it really does come down to specific camo on particular machines, depending on the Werknummer.

There are plenty of misinterpretations as well - "research is ongoing," and there are some goofs on the Tamiya drawings/decals. A well-known machine (WNr.600150) of the Stab/JG 4 was for years depicted in variations of green(s), then several previously-unpublished color photos appeared -- the airplane was finished in the 'earlier' grays, RLM 74 / 75 /76.

Here's a site to consult: FW page on CyberModeler but there's a LOT of info out there. The (downloadable) instruction sheets from eduard's series provide some of these color variations. While I usually urge modelers to support new research through the purchase of printed material, to build just a 'change of pace' project, you can leave those (very) expensive books to take up space on others' shelves.

You can trust Hal's advice -- he's probably painted more of these than anyone else I know.

Enjoy your build, GRM

edit: typo - fixed.

Edited October 24, 2014 by G.R.Morrison

[11bee]

Guys,

I'm a huge fan of late war Luftwaffe camo schemes. I was wondering if the late Dora's had the same variety as did late 109's which were in a multitude of schemes including mid-war grey, grey and green, green and brown, etc.

Also, is there any record of Dora's or other late -190's appearing with "RLM84" undersides?

[Ruud]

11bee, Late war Doras have as much variety as late war 109s. Yes there are ones with "84" on the bottom of the fuselage. Almost never on the bottom of the wings though.

Best thing to do is to pick a plane you want to do and then ask folks to check their Japo and/or Eaglecal books to get those opinions on the scheme. Some times they agree, sometimes no one agrees.

(i am lucky to have the 1st and 2nd Japo Fw 190D camouflage books)

[Hal Marshman Sr]

Thanks for the Kudos GRM. Fact is, I'm pretty much in love with the Dora, and indeed, have devoted most of my production over the past 3 years to variants of that bird. I spent the big bucks, and availed myself of Jerry Crandall's 2 volume series on the Dora, and have learned a heaping bundle. One interesting fact, is the Doras were manufactured at several different locations, and each location had its own way of applying the camo schemes. George was pretty much on the beam with his post, but I might add the late war variant of RLM76. Be it a seperate color, or a variant of 76, Crandall calls light Green, a shade somewhat similar to RAF Sky. Some in our hobby have dubbed it as RLM84. (Not an official RLM designation) This was applied to some Doras, and would appear on the bottoms and fuselage sides. In many cases, the seperate rudder would appear in regular RLM76. In almost all cases, even if the entire underwing was this color, the flaps and ailerons would be regular RLM76, as would the elevators, and in some cases, the entire stab also.. In the case of NMF finish on wing bottoms, that would apply to the wing undersides only, not the bottom of the fuselage in that area. The RLM75 could extend all the way from the main spar, and even further back. Again, different points of manufacture would dictate how far back on the wings the RLM75 would go. There seems to be some cases where the upper wing, and wing only camouflage might be a lighter shade of Gray than RLM75. (I did one using mod Mast RLM63 to good effect.) In some late machines, RLM 81 has appeared. All of this applies to factory painted ships, then you have field applications.....The best thing to do, is try and research one machine, as there are so many variations, one just cannot point to any individual scheme as being definitive. I also back up what George said about sub contracting. smaller parts and assemblies were indeed manufactured in garages, barns, and cellars. These small manufacturers would not have access to many of the very late paint modifications, this is why control surfaces would appear in 76, while the rest of the main airframe would be something else. George is also correct about the engines. The Germans applied what theycalled the "Power Egg" principle, wherein the entire engine, radiator cowling, and support structure would be presented to Focke Wulf, or individual units as a premanufactured item, completely painted, and ready to bolt on, a process taking roughly 1 hour.. This accounts for the airplanes you see that show a tight wavey or even straight color separation on the nose back to the firewall, and a completely different separation for the rest of the fuselage to the extension plug. If no RVD stripes were applied, that plug could well have appeared in NMF. (This was so on all the D-11 variants, although a light overspray of camo might appear4 over the very top surface.)

When building your Dora 9, you might want to keep a few points in mind. 1) from the front, the wheels appear perpendicular to the ground, the do not follow the slant of the gear legs. 2) If you elect to use the open cowl flap nose, the flap at 9 o'clock stays closed. This was so that it wouldn't impede the flow of air to the supoer charger intake. 3) On all variants of the Dora, to include those with the earlier canopy style, no tensioner was installed for the amtenna cable. Thus, when the canopy was opened, the cable would sag down to the top of the rear fuselage. 4) The prop blades were wooden, thus if you want to show wear, used a light gray or gray/tan. Do not use silver for a worn metal effect. 5) On long nosed FWs, the inner wheel wells have no ceiling, exposing the rear of the engine to view through the wells. Tamiya doesn't duplicate this, so you have a choice of forgetting the whole wheel well thing, as have many, or buing an after market set up for the wells and engine, your choice.

I've touched on what I consider the most important things you might want to know, and if I'm able to help in any other small way, be sure to ask. I don't know everything for sure, but do have a large amount of info at hand in those 2 volumes. (You'd be surprised to know how much of those late birds were plywood)

[11bee]

Hal and Rudd, thanks very much for the great info. I need to start reading up on this subject, I'm happy to see that late war painting of the Dora is just as crazy as what was done to the -109's.

Without bugging you too much, can one assume that the later war short-nosed models (A-8/F-8) were also painted similarly to the Dora?

Edited October 24, 2014 by 11bee

[Hal Marshman Sr]

Sorry 11Bee, I've not put as ,uch study into the radial birds as I might have, been concentrating on the Doras. Don't forget, there was also an A-9. I don't recall reference to a D-8. Lot of differences between A and F/G models, also. they of course had different misions.

[11bee]

I don't recall reference to a D-8.

My bad, meant to type F-8. Original post corrected!

[Hal Marshman Sr]

Don't worry about it 11Bee, that's why they put erasers ,on pencils. Can't begin to tell you how many times I have to backspace, delete, and retype daily.

[Kurt H.]

Thank you for the assistance. I ordered several bottles of paint. It will be an interesting change of pace. I have never built an axis powers model before.