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Parts for 1/144 Scale Space Shuttles


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I finally got a little time to start converting some of the 1/72 scale parts down to 1/144 scale. First up are the SSME's. The only material this can print in is Ultra Detailed Frosted Plastic due to the thin lines going down the side. These are a vast improvement over any of the kit engines I've seen. Hope you guys will like them.

http://www.shapeways.com/model/2603077/1-144-scale-space-shuttle-ssme.html?li=aeTabs

Thanks,

Bill

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From my experience with Shapeways Frosted Ultra Detail, you will want to rinse the parts in warm soapy water as soon as you get them, then IMMEDIATELY get some primer sprayed on them. Something about the material causes the surface to frost over, looking like it's been in an icebox for a week. You can try to sand it off, but you risk losing detail or breaking off a piece, and the frost almost immediately comes back. Funky stuff. If there is frosting already on the parts when they arrive, go ahead and get a layer of primer on before attempting to sand it off.

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WOO HOO! Been waiting for this! Buying a set now!!!

Thanks Hotdog! You're the first person to order these so please let me know how they come out. I think you'll be happy with them. :thumbsup:

Typically I'd order a set before making them available but I didn't with these so if there are any issues at all let me know. They should be fine though since everything ran through the automated checks pretty quickly.

I'll be doing the SRB parts next I think and then the ET intertank area. Just takes a little time and planning to make things beefy enough to print at the smaller scale and not lose much detail. Stay tuned!

Bill

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Is there a reason they are sold as single engines vs. sets of 3? Can't imaginge anyone buying just 1 or 2...

Very good question. They are polygon intensive parts and if I reduce the resolution down to where 3 engines are in one print, the quality will suffer quite a bit and the round bells will be very faceted. I may play with dropping it down slightly to see if there is a point where quality is still acceptable and have 3 in one print. The main issue is the piping with all it's turns. It really adds a lot of polygons to the model.

I do realize these are pretty high priced compared to something like Real Space's offering. But these are for those that want a more realistic engine where the piping isn't molding into the bell and you have to rely on painting to make them appear as pipes and not just ridges. If that's you then these are the parts for you. If not than I highly recommend getting Real Space parts. They are nice as well.

Thanks,

Bill

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Hi guys,

I fully agree with Mike, really outstanding detailed SSMEs, Bill, I'm also very interested in! :coolio:

But help me please, Bill or Hotdog, I don't understand the problems Hotdog is speaking about with the beginning frost and saving with primer etc. ... :dontknow:

:wave:

Edited by spaceman
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I'll be doing the SRB parts next I think and then the ET intertank area. Just takes a little time and planning to make things beefy enough to print at the smaller scale and not lose much detail. Stay tuned!

Bill

Bill, Make sure when you scale the ET Intertank part down to 1:144 that it's flush with the rest of the ET, the same way it fits the 1:72 Monogram ET. :)

For example, the Airfix kit's Intertank part is wider then the rest of the ET and doesn't look correct. This gets over emphasized if ribbing is added to the intertank.

Mike.

Edited by crowe-t
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Bill, Make sure when you scale the ET Intertank part down to 1:144 that it's flush with the rest of the ET, the same way it fits the 1:72 Monogram ET. :)/>

For example, the Airfix kit's Intertank part is wider then the rest of the ET and doesn't look correct. This gets over emphasized if ribbing is added to the intertank.

Mike.

That's a topic that's a bit of a controversy in some circles. I think the intertank is actually raised a bit from the main body just not as much as some kits show them. The ribbed section itself is pretty much the same diameter but the rings that connect the three sections are actually a slightly wider diameter. I will try to my best to get it looking just right.

Bill

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That's a topic that's a bit of a controversy in some circles. I think the intertank is actually raised a bit from the main body just not as much as some kits show them. The ribbed section itself is pretty much the same diameter but the rings that connect the three sections are actually a slightly wider diameter. I will try to my best to get it looking just right.

Bill

I was looking at some more pictures of ET's and the intertank does appear to be slightly raised a bit in some. I'm sure what you come up with will be better then the Airfix and Minicraft's raised intertank sections.

Mike.

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From my experience with Shapeways Frosted Ultra Detail, you will want to rinse the parts in warm soapy water as soon as you get them, then IMMEDIATELY get some primer sprayed on them. Something about the material causes the surface to frost over, looking like it's been in an icebox for a week. You can try to sand it off, but you risk losing detail or breaking off a piece, and the frost almost immediately comes back. Funky stuff. If there is frosting already on the parts when they arrive, go ahead and get a layer of primer on before attempting to sand it off.

After I've read something about Shapeways technologe, the question remains about the cause of this effect, you describe.

Accordingly, the surface structure seems to be not stable enough and can change with time, but whereby is caused and how it can be prevented? :woot.gif:

The parts are thoroughly cleaned several times after the printing in an ultrasonic bath and dried.

Ask for Bill: Have you also observed this effect and asked Shapeway this? :rolleyes:

:wave:

Edited by spaceman
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Manfred,

You can see the Shapeways 3D printed engines I delt with in my Saturn I rocket build here:

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=269382&st=0&p=2559529entry2559529

The parts looked nice when I first got them, but after rinsing them according to Shapeways suggestion, the surface frosted over in inconsistent patterns. I later learned that the orientation of the frosting has to do with the angle at which the parts are printed, and Shapeways does not allow the customer to choose this angle.

Shapeways sent me a replacement set of the engines, and this time I only rinsed them in a mild dish soap and warm water. They soon frosted over in the very same manner! I spent a good hour or so carefully sanding the frosting off, only to have it come back again the next day!

When I receive Bill's SSME's, I will spray them with primer immediately, without rinsing or anything, and see how that does.

Edited by Hotdog
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Manfred,

You can see the Shapeways 3D printed engines I delt with in my Saturn I rocket build here:

http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=269382&st=0&p=2559529entry2559529

The parts looked nice when I first got them, but after rinsing them according to Shapeways suggestion, the surface frosted over in inconsistent patterns. I later learned that the orientation of the frosting has to do with the angle at which the parts are printed, and Shapeways does not allow the customer to choose this angle.

Shapeways sent me a replacement set of the engines, and this time I only rinsed them in a mild dish soap and warm water. They soon frosted over in the very same manner! I spent a good hour or so carefully sanding the frosting off, only to have it come back again the next day!

When I receive Bill's SSME's, I will spray them with primer immediately, without rinsing or anything, and see how that does.

I wouldn't use any harsh chemicals at all on them to clean them. For the ones I've received, I just rinsed in warm mild soapy water and let dry thoroughly. I then used a tamiya fine surface primer and didn't have any problems after that. It could be the goo be gone that caused your first parts issues? Just a theory. I certainly will do some more research to find the best way to handle these materials. Thanks!

Bill

Edited by niart17
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Hi Hotdog. I have experienced the same on mine. I thought it was because of the alcohol bath I gave them. I've since primered the parts so I couldn't check now, but I remember trying to scrape the frost off with a knife and couldn't. So I thought it was more like the material just changing color than something growing on the surface or the surface changing in texture -- becoming more rough -- is this what you observed? For my recent "detail-less" parts I've started sanding them to make the surface smoother.

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Yes, this is what I experienced. Sanding would not be a problem on detail-less parts, but I did not want to sand off the rib detail around the engine nozzles.

I used mild dish soap on the second set of engines, and got the same result. When you research it online, it seems everyone has a different solution, and the same result. I don't think there is a solution other than sanding and immediately getting paint on the parts to "seal" them. I guess we have to accept that we are playing with a new technology that has not been perfected yet.

Edited by Hotdog
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20140915_172419_zps113d7908.jpg

The 1/144 SSME's arrived while I was out-of-town at the end of last week, so I did not see them until today. As expected, the parts had already started to crystallize or frost over! If you look at the image above, you can see that each engine has varying degrees of frosting, the center engine being the worst. Also, some segments of the fuel lines have broken off during shipping. This is due to the brittle nature of the Frosted Ultra Detail printed material.

20140915_172852_zps0f82ef03.jpg

Here's an image showing the unpainted engine nozzles dry fitted to the Airfix aft bulkhead. The throats of the nozzles could be one or two millimeters wider to fit over the mounting holes better.

Quickly, I drilled holes in the top of each nozzle and stuck toothpicks into them for painting. I sprayed them with a Tamiya Light Gray primer rattle can.

20140915_175008_zpsd976ef75.jpg

20140915_175116_zpse5f69471.jpg

20140915_175215_zps2ce2de31.jpg

The above images show the inconsistency of the frosting on the sides of each nozzle. Some sides are quite smooth and look great, while other areas have more of a gritty texture. The center nozzle is the worst overall.

20140915_175334_zps26d24a3e.jpg

The insides of the nozzles are not immune to the issue either. The center nozzle, shown on the right, had a large area of crystallization punctuated with the nice blemish you see here.

I will monitor these parts over the next few days to see if they continue to frost over after being sprayed with primer. I'm hoping the paint will "freeze" them as they are and stop them from getting worse. I may be able to sand and repaint the two nozzles that were least affected by the frosting, but I will probably have to order a replacement for the center nozzle that was in such bad shape. To anyone ordering FUD parts from Shapeways, I would suggest ordering an extra just in case you get a "dud" like I did.

If I can manage to get a good finish to these nozzles, I think they will look excellent on one of my Airfix shuttles. My only suggestions to Bill for improvement would be to increase the thickness of the fuel lines a hair or two, so they won't be as prone to breakage during handling, and to widen the throats of the nozzle by a millimeter or two for ease of fitting onto the bulkhead.

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Hey Hotdog, thanks for keeping us informed with the nozzles. All I can say is WOW, I've never had any of the parts I've ordered from them do this. I don't know if location humidity or time or something is the culprit but something isn't right I'd say. If you don't mind, perhaps try to contact Shapeways and tell them you think this is a bad print and see if they will try to do something. I will also pass these results on to them and see if they can handle it. I'm really sorry these came out so poorly. They are some parts I should have ordered first before making them available. I will also bump up the size of the piping slightly, even though the size is well within what they claim is safe.

as for the throat base size, I think that's an issue of differing shuttle kits. Revell's should fit just right. I can maybe make a few variations for different orbiter kits. Again I apologize, I hope we can get this worked out for you.

Thanks,

Bill

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No problem Bill, no need to apologize. You've done an excellent job! The issues are all on Shapeway's end. My review is only to point out all of the issues that can happen with the Shapeways FUD printed material.

When you say your parts have never done this, was it with Shapeway parts printed in FUD? The frosting has happened every time I have ordered FUD parts from them. I have contacted them before and had them send me replacements, only to have the issue come up again. Online searches reveal no clear-cut solutions, only others like myself who are at a loss for how to avoid the frosting issue, and trying all sorts of crazy techniques.

I'll see if I can get them to send me a replacement, at least for the one that was really messed up. Let me know if you find out any more ways to combat the frosting.

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When you say your parts have never done this, was it with Shapeway parts printed in FUD?

Yes I've ordered several, I'd say about 15, FUD parts from them and never had the frosting issue like this. Some were fairly intricate detailed like some Hummer tires and rims while others were simple smooth rings like the SRB attachment rings. The only treatment I'd given FUD parts was a rinse in plain water then rub a dab of dawn on them and rinse again. Let air dry for about an hour and then primer. I've mostly used Tamiya fine surface primer on them but a few parts have just had plain ol' cheap white Walmart spray paint and they seem to be fine. I've only had to actually sand one part in FUD, the first SRB attach rings. That was only to see if I could get the band a lot smoother than the insulation so they'd paint different. I decided to print those in WSF instead so the foam insulation would be easier to replicate.

Let me know if they send you a replacement for the one. It looks pretty bad from the pics.

Thanks,

Bill

Edited by niart17
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