P-38 "Miss Virginia"

[John Clements]

Hi Everyone:

I'm new to this forum, but I'm really enjoying myself cruising through all of the terrific posts. (Should have joined long ago.) I came across one asking for P-38 reference opinions, which then became a discussion about 339th Fighter Squadron P-38s, the Yamamoto Mission, and "Miss Virginia" in particular. I have some knowledge on these subjects I would like to share to help anyone interested in modeling this P-38, so I learned how to post pictures and decided to jump in with both feet!

I've been researching the P-38s that Rex Barber flew since the early 1970's. Rex was a close friend and we had numerous conversations about the airplanes he flew during the war over the years. While he remembered many details about the Yamamoto Mission, he was never really sure what airplane he was flying on the mission. As more facts came to light, more information was added to my files. When it became known that he was actually flying Bob Pettit's "Miss Virginia" on the mission, it was like a revelation! Finally, some hard information!! A picture of "Miss Virginia" appeared in Carroll Glines book "Attack on Yamamoto", published in 1990. In that picture, the Lockheed constructor's number appears as 3373, making "Miss Virginia" a P-38G-13, Army Air Corp serial 43-2264.

In 1994 I ran into Wirt Silvas, artist for the Mustang International monograph on Rex Barber, at an airshow in California. He had several of the monographs with him for sale, and I was very excited to get my hands on one. We got into a discussion about the serial number depicted in the artwork and on the decal sheet as 43-2204! I presented my case that the number should be 43-2264, and he gave me contact information for noted researcher Jim Lansdale who had provided the information to Mustang International for their monograph. Upon contacting Jim, I again presented my case for the number being 43-2264. Jim responded with his case for the number being 43-2204, and the discussion ensued! Cutting to the chase, I was able to persuade him that the number was indeed 43-2264. Unfortunately the monograph and decals were already out, not to mention the excellent painting by Roy Grinnell with 32204 visable on the tail of "Miss Virginia". Here's a cropped copy of the picture in question showing the Lockheed constructor's number on the nose, and the serial number of the airplane stenciled on the right prop, used by Jim to make his identification.

A blow-up of the prop blade makes the number easier to see. Could be a 0, could be a 6 too. C/N 3373 makes it a 6!

The airplane actually assigned serial number 43-2204 is the P-38G-13 flown by "Jump" O'Neill of the 9th Fighter Squadron, nicknamed "Beautiful Lass". Here's a picture of that airplane with the constructor's number 3313 (last two digits visible), corrsponding to AAC serial 43-2204. This AAC serial number is readable in the data block on the side of the gondola.

Regarding the lack of antenna mast under the nose of "Miss Virginia", it was tied directly to what radio equipment was installed in the airplane. If the SCR-274 was used, the mast under the nose was deleted and the "V" wire antenna from the canopy back to the tail was used. If the SCR-522 set was used, the mast was used. I believe all of the P-38s used by the sqadrons operating from Quadalcanal at this time lacked the antenna mast. The "antenna" in front of the windscreen identified in the Mustang International monograph decal instructions is actually the "bead" part of the ring and bead sight arrangement in the early P-38s. This was a supplemental gun sight installed next to the reflector sight used at this time. Item 24 in the picture below is identified as "Mast--50 Calibre Gun Front Bead Sight".

The next picture shows an H model without the bead sight mast, but the mounting area for it clearly visable. Studying pictures of early P-38s in various squadrons and areas of operation, some had it and some had it removed.

I hope this information helps anyone wishing to model "Miss Virginia". Mine has been on the "To Do" list for quite some time, and I hope to get to it later this year. I'm a little dismayed that Mike Grant also depicts the number as 43-2204, and I had no idea he had produced markings for "Miss Virginia". His stuff is fantastic!

John

Edited May 5, 2008 by John Clements

[John Clements]

Boy, did I blow that!!! The title of the post should have been P-38 "Miss Virginia", of course. I told you I was new to this!

John

[vvwse4]

Boy, did I blow that!!! The title of the post should have been P-38 "Miss Virginia", of course. I told you I was new to this!

John

Don't worry, the info is great!!!!

Rick.

[mongo]

Hi John;

Thanks for posting this information. I have been interested in the Yamamoto Mission since I first read about it in Reader's Digest when I was 10 in the mid-60s. My interest was rekindled when Air & Space Smithsonian published an article about 1991 detailing the controversy over the credit for the kill. I contacted and became a member of the Second Yamamoto Mission Assoc. who put me in touch with Jim Lansdale. He was instrumental in getting me a great deal of information as well as putting me in touch with Doug Canning who was one of the pilots on the mission. I got some photos of P-38s on Guadalcanal from him that were from original negatives!

From the info Jim gave me as well as what I gleaned from the Canning photos I made a model of Barber's P-38. Jim also helped me get a copy of the Grinnel print commemorating the mission. With Jim's help I have also made models of the Admiral's Betty and one of the escort Zeros.

There was indeed a discrepancy from the photo interpretation of the aircraft serial number. Apparently, the correlation between the Lockheed constructor number and the USAAF serial number was overlooked. I put 41-2204 on my model since that little detail did not come to light until AFTER the model was finished. It will remain that way because to replace it would ruin the model Perhaps someday I'll build another (not in this lifetime...). The rest of the Mustang International sheet seems correct for the P-38.

I was always uncertain about the "antenna" on the nose you detailed. I thought it might be an IFF antenna, but your info seems pretty conclusive that it was a bead-sight post.

One other discrepancy that Jim brought to light about the Mustang sheet is regarding the Betty. Jim believes that the white fin tip was not present on the Admiral's plane at the time it was downed. I painted mine as such.

Jeff "Mongo" Cramer

[juanchopancho]

Hi John,

Great first post & thanks for sharing this info.

BTW

You can edit the title of this thread. Towards the end of your first post you should see the EDIT button. Just click on it and you can change the title.

[John Clements]

Hi John,

Great first post & thanks for sharing this info.

BTW

You can edit the title of this thread. Towards the end of your first post you should see the EDIT button. Just click on it and you can change the title.

Thanks Eric. I gave it a try.

[David Walker]

Great information on the P-38 and welcome to ARC!

[Steve N]

Great info, thanks!

I've been hanging onto the Mustang decal sheet in hopes that someday, SOMEBODY would release a new-tool early P-38 and G4M1 in 1/72.

SN

[Liberator24]

A great BIG welcome to ARC. You're right, you should have been posting a long time ago. When you have something to say, MAN, you have something! Great information.

TF51GregWise and his fellow men of Kissimmee, gave me the opportunity to stand next to the cockpit of Putt Putt ***** a few weeks back, and, of course she is in my heart...I am completely overwhelmed with the P-38 and hope to have a few in my display case, not too long out in the future!

Thanks again for the information! Just...WOW!!!

-Jim

[dixieflyer]

Steve,

Which sheet do you have? Is it OOP? I ask, because the only one Mike Grant offers right now that has Virginia Marie on it is the 1/48th B-17G Thunderbird sheet.

Warren

[TausugAIR]

Hi, John ...

Both pictures show the P-38 to have a series of light colored bands over the panel lines... Like to know what are these and what color.... My father (and his southern Philippines generation of WW-2) called the P-38 "Double Body" ... Regards...

Farouk

Edited May 5, 2008 by TausugAIR

[P-38 guy]

Thanks for the information John!

Mongo, care to share some of the Guadalcanal photo's?

Farouk, Those light colored lines are where the seems had been taped over and sealed for shipment to prevent damage.

Mike

[John Clements]

Hi, John ...

Both pictures show the P-38 to have a series of light colored bands over the panel lines... Like to know what are these and what color.... My father (and his southern Philippines generation of WW-2) called the P-38 "Double Body" ... Regards...

Farouk

Hi Farouk,

When these airplanes were shipped overseas, the areas where mointure could enter the airframe were sealed with some sort of material and most likely a clear varnish to keep it in place. Then they were tarped up and placed on a barge or some other type of ship for the long journey to their destination.

Upon arriving, all of this material was removed and the aircraft was reassembled and prepared for combat. The clear varnish remained behind though, giving the appearance that the paint where the sealant material was is lighter. In reality, the area where the varnish is is just darker and a bit glossy.

Hope this helps. Best regards to you and your father if he's still with us.

John

[chukw]

Fabulous thread! That tape, applied to P-61's, pulled the paint off when removed, and was, in many cases, crudely repainted. The birth of panel line shading, perhaps? <_< In this case- what a great painting challenge- and nekkid nose art to boot! Yhnaks-

chuk

[jrallman]

I am the one who is building Miss Virginia, so this information is fantastic! I will modify the decals to reflect the proper serial number. Yes, the Mike Grant decals are the ones included as a bonus on the Thunderbird sheet (though they are for Miss Virginia, not Virginia Marie, which I believe are the OOB decals on one of the Hasegawa P-38J boxings). As for the panel lines, the information I have on those is that it was not clear varnish, but was tape soaked in creosote. The creosote soaked into the paint along the panel lines, which is why the color variation seen is so straight and uniform in width. It looks like there is a darker less uniform area around the tape lines. Perhaps this is the area affected by some varnish coat, giving the planes three distinct shades. The preserved nice straight uniform lines over the panel lines from the tape. The darker less uniform area all around the tape lines from the varnish, and the unmolested areas of paint that weather normally. Should be interesting to try to replicate all that. One question about the antenna and aerials though. You mention that if the plane used an SCR-274 radio, that the under nose antenna was deleted and the V aerials were used, but in the pics that have been posted of Miss Virginia thus far, there doesn't appear to be any evidence that the V aerials were installed either.

[don f]

When these airplanes were shipped overseas, the areas where mointure could enter the airframe were sealed with some sort of material and most likely a clear varnish to keep it in place. Then they were tarped up and placed on a barge or some other type of ship for the long journey to their destination.

Upon arriving, all of this material was removed and the aircraft was reassembled and prepared for combat. The clear varnish remained behind though, giving the appearance that the paint where the sealant material was is lighter. In reality, the area where the varnish is is just darker and a bit glossy.

Hello John,

Pleased to find you here at ARC. The tarps were typically oil cloth. The tarps, seams and other openings were sealed with tape, the forerunner of "duct" tape. A solvent could be applied to the tape to improve adhesion. One spec for the tape was AN-T-12. I believe that the light colored areas on the seams was the adhesive residue.

Don

[P-38 guy]

On a side note to the picture that John posted of of Capt Haning of the 475th FG. Note the field mod to the supercharger with the extra air intake added.

I've seen these on early Lightning of the 475th, 49th, 8th Fighter groups and the 39th FS but have not found any picture showing them on any 339th FS a/c. Seems to have been a later mod so I don't think it was on any of their a/c. Anyone have any other pictures of the 339th at that time to check?

Mike

[TausugAIR]

Hi,,,

John - thanks for the enlightening information . . . and, I was not clear on my LATE father.. just the same thanks!

Jrallman - the "panel lines" and your " . . Should be interesting to try to replicate all that . . ." started me on further quest and this what I've found in IPMS-London Website courtesty of a Mr. Duncan McIntosh (scroll to next below photo:

http://www.ipmslondon.ca/old%20site/ipmslo...llery/id30.html

Thanks to above two gentle-persons for the highlight.... Regards....

Edited May 6, 2008 by TausugAIR

[jrallman]

Yes, I had run across Duncan's Miss Virginia before as well, and he does quite a nice job with the tape lines on the panel lines. One thing he doesn't really include which is fairly drastic from the photos I have seen is that darker non-uniform area around the tape lines that looks like it was varnish or some other substance that was slapped on over top of the tape. It seems that it gives the paint a darker glossier look surrounding the tape lines. I think some trial and error on some test pieces will be necessary here!

[TausugAIR]

Yes, I had run across Duncan's Miss Virginia before as well, and he does quite a nice job with the tape lines on the panel lines. [color="#FFFF00"]One thing he doesn't really include which is fairly drastic from the photos I have seen is that darker non-uniform area around the tape lines[/color] that looks like it was varnish or some other substance that was slapped on over top of the tape. It seems that it gives the paint a darker glossier look surrounding the tape lines. I think some trial and error on some test pieces will be necessary here!

jrallman - i noticed that also and as you said a "trial and error" is in order there... I've seen your other thread on the P-38 discussing same subject... there's a photo of Capt Shubin with his 38 "Oriole" and I realized that the Oriole had that same "unintended camo" type! This marking came with the Academy 48th P-38 Kit which I intend to do but I'm having a change of heart.. I'd been wanting to model the 38 that shot-down Admiral Yamamoto (after reading of the incident in Readers' Digests in 60's). . The catch now is there wouldn't be locally available markings/decal of Miss Virginia... perhaps, I will have to resort to making my own decal my oftentimes model markings approach...

I hope I'm not intruding on Mr. John Clemens thread here (for discussing decal making) and if so, my apology.... Regards to all.....

[John Clements]

I am the one who is building Miss Virginia, so this information is fantastic! I will modify the decals to reflect the proper serial number. Yes, the Mike Grant decals are the ones included as a bonus on the Thunderbird sheet (though they are for Miss Virginia, not Virginia Marie, which I believe are the OOB decals on one of the Hasegawa P-38J boxings). As for the panel lines, the information I have on those is that it was not clear varnish, but was tape soaked in creosote. The creosote soaked into the paint along the panel lines, which is why the color variation seen is so straight and uniform in width. It looks like there is a darker less uniform area around the tape lines. Perhaps this is the area affected by some varnish coat, giving the planes three distinct shades. The preserved nice straight uniform lines over the panel lines from the tape. The darker less uniform area all around the tape lines from the varnish, and the unmolested areas of paint that weather normally. Should be interesting to try to replicate all that. One question about the antenna and aerials though. You mention that if the plane used an SCR-274 radio, that the under nose antenna was deleted and the V aerials were used, but in the pics that have been posted of Miss Virginia thus far, there doesn't appear to be any evidence that the V aerials were installed either.

Hi Jay,

Here's the pages from the parts manual for the P-38. While I have the G series manual as well, these pages from the H, J, L manual are better because they have everything on one page for each. The G manual splits the antennas up to several more pages, so it was better to use the other pages from the later model manual. Part numbers are the same.

Here's the SCR-274 set

and here's the SCR-522 set

Now, I have a shot of a P-38 from the 347th Group that shows the antenna lead in at the front top of the rear canopy, but it is very small and I don't think it would copy well enough to see here. I know I have this shot in a larger version, and as soon as I find it, I'll post it. As for the postings of other airplanes from the group, none of them are at the right angle to really see the V antenna or the area of the rear canopy is blocked out. If the airplane didn't have the mast under the nose, it had to have the V antenna, or it didn't have any radio at all! Oh yes, I have a copy of the page from the E&M manual for the F-5, and it shows the various antennas corrosponding to the various radios. It's not a great copy, but here it is.

I'll post that other picture as soon as I can find it.

John

[John Clements]

Hello John,

Pleased to find you here at ARC. The tarps were typically oil cloth. The tarps, seams and other openings were sealed with tape, the forerunner of "duct" tape. A solvent could be applied to the tape to improve adhesion. One spec for the tape was AN-T-12. I believe that the light colored areas on the seams was the adhesive residue.

Don

Hi Don:

Nice to be here! I can't believe it, but I had the answer to what it is all the time!! I just never bothered to read it all the way through.

The E&M manual for the F-5 has a very detailed procedure for packing the airplane up for shipping. It specifies tape in varius widths, but no actual spec is quoted. After applying the tape to the seams specified, it says to seal over the tape with a mixture of two parts "rubber solvent" and one part Par-al-ketone. I've used Par-al-ketone before when I was working on restoring Hu-16 Albatross'. We used it to seal areas of the hull interior susceptable to water collection and corrosion. It's kind of nasty thick oily black stuff. That would explain the color on the gondolas on the P-38's! It's kind of hard to get off without taking paint off too, and diluted with this solvent it probably just became part of the paint job. Large areas were covered as you describe above.

Cheers,

John

[Steve N]

Steve,

Which sheet do you have? Is it OOP? I ask, because the only one Mike Grant offers right now that has Virginia Marie on it is the 1/48th B-17G Thunderbird sheet.

Warren

I'd have to did it out, but I believe the sheet was produced by Mustang International, the same outifit that published the monograph mentioned in the initial post. It included markings for Barber's "Miss Virginia," as well as both G4M1 "Betty" bombers shot down in the raid. The decals were printed by Scale Master, and I think came in 1/48 and 1/72 (mine are 1/72.) I've had mine since the early '90s. I don't remember where I got it, but I believe the sheet is long out of production.

SN

[P-38 guy]

Here's a pic with the tape still on.

Mike

[jrallman]

From what I have found, there are two sheets with Miss Virginia decals. One is the mustang sheet which includes the Bettys as well, but is OOP. The other is the Mike Grant sheet included as bonus decals on the B-17 Thunderbird sheet. Seems both will require some modification to the serial number but no biggie.

Great detail shots of those radios. Should come in handy since I think the SCR-274 will require some scratch building. If you do come across a good picture of the lead in from the V aerial to the radio, I'd love to see it.