414 Squadron reactivated? Options

[Flyboyf18]

the reason I heard for AETE moving was that it was costing too much to have the personel based out there permanently(due to the bonus that have to be paid for being in the middle of nowhere). after the Tudor is retired, they won;t actually have any of thier own aircraft;
Sean

There is no bonus paid to members serving in Cool Pool, it is just under the 'sparsely inhabited region' or whatever they call it. I spent 5 years there ('87-'92) and I checked on this benefit before I left civilization to head to the wilds of northern Alta., the only bonus I got was Aircrew Duty pay.
AETE 'owns' at least 1 Griffon and 4 Hornets, 2; 701 and 907 are hard wired for testing and I doubt they can return to fleet service because of this.
If AETE were to move here they would have a split Sqn. since all the personel working on the range will have to stay at Cool Pool because of the expense of moving them back and forth for testing??
I would be most surprised if the unit moved here, it is more likely that some HQ staff will come here leaving a detachment in the 'Pool'.
Just my $00.02

[redmaple]

Reference 414 Sqn. reactivation: I contacted the journalist who wrote up the article in the Sarnia Observer and he confirms the people/aircraft in question are the Top Aces (presently based at YUL airport). He was unable to give me a transfer date, however. Like most on in this forum, I have seen no official announcements in either the Air Force web page or the Top Aces site. However, it is known that they operate 8 Alpha Jets and 4 IAI Westwinds.

On the matter of AETE moving to YOW, it has also been rumoroed they might set up shop at YMX. Plenty of space there plus L-3 Comm handling of CF-18s.

[yvesff]

Reference 414 Sqn. reactivation: I contacted the journalist who wrote up the article in the Sarnia Observer and he confirms the people/aircraft in question are the Top Aces (presently based at YUL airport). He was unable to give me a transfer date, however. Like most on in this forum, I have seen no official announcements in either the Air Force web page or the Top Aces site. However, it is known that they operate 8 Alpha Jets and 4 IAI Westwinds.

On the matter of AETE moving to YOW, it has also been rumoroed they might set up shop at YMX. Plenty of space there plus L-3 Comm handling of CF-18s.

Pratt & Whitney Canada Flight Test Department (Boeing 720B, Boeing 747SP (2)) is moving to YMX this fall from St-Hubert. They will be building a brand new Hangar on the Cargo side runways to house the SPs...

[airjiml2]

AIR FORCE PUBLIC AFFAIRS

January 19, 2009
Ceremony to Mark the Re-Formation of 414 Electronic Warfare Support Squadron

OTTAWA, ONTARIO--(Marketwire - Jan. 19, 2009) - Major-General Marcel Duval, Commander of 1 Canadian Air Division, will preside over a military ceremony to mark the re-formation of 414 Electronic Warfare Support (EWS) Squadron.

The re-formation of 414 (EWS) Squadron is a clear illustration of the Air Force's ongoing transformation initiatives to ensure an Air Force that is effective, efficient and relevant.

WHEN: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 at 10:00 a.m. Media should arrive no later than 9:45 a.m. to set up.

WHERE: Vintage Wings of Canada, Gatineau Airport, 1699 Rue Arthur Fecteau, Gatineau, QC.

WHAT: A Supermarine Spitfire and a North American Aviation P-51 Mustang, aircraft formerly flown by 414 Squadron, will be on display along with an Alpha Jet aircraft from Top Aces Inc., the prime service supplier to Contracted Airborne Training Services (CATS) Project, in which CF electronic warfare officers of 414 Squadron fly today.

For more information about the history and heritage of 414 Squadron, see the backgrounder entitled "414 Electronic Warfare Support Squadron: History and Heritage" dated Jan. 20, 2009 in the Newsroom at www.forces.gc.ca.

[ALF18]

... will be on display along with an Alpha Jet aircraft from Top Aces Inc., the prime service supplier to Contracted Airborne Training Services (CATS) Project, in which CF electronic warfare officers of 414 Squadron fly today.

airjiml2
Thanks for posting - interesting info. At first it seemed odd to have a squadron whose aircraft are operated by a contractor (Top ACES), but thinking it through it makes sense for the military back seaters (EWOs) to fall under the umbrella of a squadron administratively.

And now, we all have to make a choice - attend Mr Obama's inauguration, or the reactivation of 414!
Or maybe just stay at home, watch the snow fly, and build models.
ALF

[Cadfael]

AETE's move has been on hold since the election call. Our grown-ups will be making a presentation to the VCDS in the near future to see if the planning can continue. There are also other briefings that will be have to be made up the political chain before anybody would be willing to sign a cheque. The current economic situation and upcoming budget may have some bearing on the process as well.

There is currently no facility in Ottawa that we can move into, requiring a new hangar/test facility to be built. Once the funding is approved by Treasury Board, early PWGSC estimates are 3 years for the planning, bidding and contracting process and another 2-3 years for construction to be completed. They have also recommended against any leasing or co-location with other government agencies (NRC, TC) as they seem to have better lawyers and contract writers than we do.

One of the "fights" is with the Ottawa Airport Authority over land use. DND still retains a significant amount of land around airport as long as there is an operational requirement. The Airport believes that as AETE is not an operational unit, it constitutes a change of use and any new facility built at the airport will become theirs and, at the very least, the land must be leased from them.

We currently have 2 CF188's, 5 CT114's and 2 CH146's. Both CF188's will likely be retired, along with the rest of the legacy aircraft, by years end. If the reduction of the Griffon fleet comes about, we may lose one or both of them as well. It is unknown if we will have any of our own aircraft by the time the move is made. Some aircraft will come to us for instrumenting, but it is more likely that we would deploy to them.

PLER may remain DND operated, possibly as part of FOTEF, or it may become GOCO (Gov't Owned, Contractor Operated). The new Tracking System is portable, so we could take everything with us and deploy them to any test range when required. That is yet to be seen. Also, most of the new weapons systems cannot be tested here because of the safety footprints.

When the move does happen, pilot currency would likely conducted on contracted civilian types, NRC or Transport Canada aircraft and TD to nearby bases for CF specific types.

[Elmo]

AETE's move has been on hold since the election call. Our grown-ups will be making a presentation to the VCDS in the near future to see if the planning can continue. There are also other briefings that will be have to be made up the political chain before anybody would be willing to sign a cheque. The current economic situation and upcoming budget may have some bearing on the process as well.

There is currently no facility in Ottawa that we can move into, requiring a new hangar/test facility to be built. Once the funding is approved by Treasury Board, early PWGSC estimates are 3 years for the planning, bidding and contracting process and another 2-3 years for construction to be completed. They have also recommended against any leasing or co-location with other government agencies (NRC, TC) as they seem to have better lawyers and contract writers than we do.

One of the "fights" is with the Ottawa Airport Authority over land use. DND still retains a significant amount of land around airport as long as there is an operational requirement. The Airport believes that as AETE is not an operational unit, it constitutes a change of use and any new facility built at the airport will become theirs and, at the very least, the land must be leased from them.

We currently have 2 CF188's, 5 CT114's and 2 CH146's. Both CF188's will likely be retired, along with the rest of the legacy aircraft, by years end. If the reduction of the Griffon fleet comes about, we may lose one or both of them as well. It is unknown if we will have any of our own aircraft by the time the move is made. Some aircraft will come to us for instrumenting, but it is more likely that we would deploy to them.

PLER may remain DND operated, possibly as part of FOTEF, or it may become GOCO (Gov't Owned, Contractor Operated). The new Tracking System is portable, so we could take everything with us and deploy them to any test range when required. That is yet to be seen. Also, most of the new weapons systems cannot be tested here because of the safety footprints.

When the move does happen, pilot currency would likely conducted on contracted civilian types, NRC or Transport Canada aircraft and TD to nearby bases for CF specific types.

I always thought that the CF-18's at AETE were low time birds, the question is the stress that has been put on the birds though. I'm surprised they would retire the A/C since I believe them to be very modified for Test A/C. Then again I'm saying all this sitting in my Lazy Boy!

Anyhow back to our regularly sched program.

[Cadfael]

They are low time flying hour wise. The fatigue life is the more important number and both our aircraft are early lot centre barrels that are subject to cracking. Because of the extensive instrumentation it was deemed cost prohibitive to replace the centre barrels and incorporate the current fleet upgrades and the new techs won't be trained on maintaining them. Parts and pieces, including the software, are also getting scarce to keep the legacy jets in the air.

There is a chance that CF188907 may go to NRC.

[martin_sam_2000]

There is a chance that CF188907 may go to NRC.

Now THAT is an intersting prospect. You will have to keep me posted with regards to that one!!!!

Its too bad that the OAO is such a PITA. Every time someone wants to build something that will make the airport better(OFC hanger, Air Canada Hanger, AETE hanger...read HANGER!!!!) they get in a wad and fight it. I just don't get it at all.

hopefully you guys can figure somehting out in a timely fashion.


Sean

[Scooby]

Well, the US did just retire the F-117. Perhaps being they are the correct color for a 414 jet we will see 12 up here.






























This post has been edited by Scooby: Jan 20 2009, 03:57 AM

[airjiml2]

Sorry Scooby but those CAF F-117s are being painted yellow. They will carry SKADs in the bombay and will replace the Buffalos.

Btw, rumor has it the Top Aces Alpha Jets have a new "Aggressor" scheme.

Jim

[martin_sam_2000]

Sorry Scooby but those CAF F-117s are being painted yellow. They will carry SKADs in the bombay and will replace the Buffalos.

Btw, rumor has it the Top Aces Alpha Jets have a new "Aggressor" scheme.

Jim

DAMN RIGHT THEY DO!!!!!

I saw one today and I did a triple take!!!! they are painted in a white/gray/light blue scheme VERY similar to the F-16 scheme. I wasn't able to get any pics today due to blowing snow and inconviniently placed snow banks..but maybe tomorrow!!!!

awesome scheme.

I will most likely be at the ceremony next tues so I will get as many pictures as I am allowed of both Hawk One and the new scheme.

Sean

[frankycee]

Those Alpha Jets get maintenance done here in Trois-Rivieres from Premiere Aviation, so I sometyimes see them having fun while they wait for clearance to land.

At first I thought they were CF-18s or Hawks (I see them from pretty far away), but a pair overflew my house the other day and I recongnized the alpha Jet's silouette...

Wish I could get a hangar visit one day while they are inside.

[airjiml2]

I will most likely be at the ceremony next tues so I will get as many pictures as I am allowed of both Hawk One and the new scheme.

Next Tuesday...you mean yesterday right? Or have NRC perfected time travel?

As for pics...blowing snow and snow banks are no excuse...we need to see the new scheme ASAP!

Jim

This post has been edited by airjiml2: Jan 21 2009, 08:45 PM

[martin_sam_2000]

Next Tuesday...you mean yesterday right? Or have NRC perfected time travel?

As for pics...blowing snow and snow banks are no excuse...we need to see the new scheme ASAP!

Jim

well..it seems I have messed up my dates. with my odd work schedule I got "next week' mixed up with 'NEXT next week and I appereantly missed my chance. but...I see them all the time here at YOW and I will get pics the next chance I get.

Sean

[Sabre F-86]

I actually read about it yesterday in the Toronto Sun

Heres the article. I would have posted about it but got dragged into something else n forgot about it.

http://www.torontosun.com/news/canada/2009...20/8089786.html

As for what they will fly:

The squadron will operate Dassault-Dornier Alpha jets, French/German-built aircraft owned by Top Aces Consulting Inc., a Quebec firm which has been involved in electronic warfare training on a contract basis since 2005


Sabre

This post has been edited by Sabre F-86: Jan 22 2009, 02:45 AM

[martin_sam_2000]

THE WAITING IS OVER!!!!!

after standing outside in the cold for 25 min and pissing of my supervisor by not doing nay work...here are pictures of the new scheme!!!!!!







Sean

[Raceaddict]

Sweet!

Who makes the best 1/72 model? And when will CalMilAir put out some decals?

This post has been edited by Raceaddict: Jan 22 2009, 07:37 PM

[airjiml2]

THE WAITING IS OVER!!!!!

after standing outside in the cold for 25 min and pissing of my supervisor by not doing nay work...here are pictures of the new scheme!!!!!!

Sean

Sean,

THANK YOU!!!

Jim

[ALF18]

THE WAITING IS OVER!!!!!

after standing outside in the cold for 25 min and pissing of my supervisor by not doing nay work...here are pictures of the new scheme!!!!!!
Sean

Sean
Great photos - thanks for posting them. I have it on good authority (from one of the 425 pilots a few minutes ago) that 2 of the 4 aircraft are painted with this scheme now. It is quite effective against a snowy background. Definitely a subject I have to do sometime soon - who's doing the decals?
ALF