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1/48 Hasegawa F-4E TuAF SEA


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Wow! how do you get those straight rivet lines? I make my own rivets too but not even close to the fabric look you achieve!

Here's a pic to show what I do

rxkl.jpg

Even tho they're Ok, there's no comparisson to yours!

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Thank you guys. I too hope that all the rivet effort will be worth it at the end.

Wow! how do you get those straight rivet lines? I make my own rivets too but not even close to the fabric look you achieve!

I think your rivets look really well laid out as well. I can't see any straightness issues. Perhaps the density (frequency) of the rivets are a little less than mine, but like most riveting, it is mostly artistic anyway. My approach is to use some sort of tape (regular or dymo) to guide the riveter:

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For very short segments, I free-hand it but for the most part I try to use a guide like this. If the rivets are right next to a panel line, I sometimes free hand (very carefully) taking the panel line as a guide. In these situations, I try to keep the panel line to the left of the riveter (I am right handed) so that my view is not blocked. But as you can see from my pics, it is nowhere perfect. I have lots of stray rivets too. If it is horrible, I sand them down, fill the section with super glue, wait to dry, sand again and redo the rivets. The whole thing sure takes time.

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Very impressive rivet and panel line work. I will most certainly be taking a few methods you've shown here to work on the engraved panel lines and rivets that I want to add to the -140. Thank you for your in depth how-to styled posts; they make it very easy and enjoyable to read and follow along. I'm looking forward to seeing and reading more of your work.

Cheers!

Mark.

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Thank you very much Mark, I am glad you find some of the info useful. A small update before moving onto priming:

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I tried to make the blister details around the parachute housing. I had seen somewhere here somebody doing this for clear lenses. I gave it a try for these round blisters:

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A little oversized, but I'll live with it:

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The air scoop attached. Despite lots of sanding and leveling, it is still a little oversized. With the SEA camo, hopefully it won't be as noticeable:

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The joint between the bottom forward and mid fuselage took a while. I will have to cover up the partially lost door hinge. Also, I scribed the two lights at the wrong place. Since this photo, I moved them further to the front, and made a deep hole to place clear lenses in them:

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Aside from the landing gear and well details, do you think there are other details I could add to this build? I am looking to add as much detail as possible (to the extent my skills permit), so I am open to suggestions.

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Thank you guys. I think the pod looks bent due to the fisheye distortion of the scene (see the grid lines on the mat). I think I forgot to mention that I am using various resources for the rivets. I have collected tons of pictures, but other than that I am using Zigi's build (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=231901&st=40), some drawings I had, a few images Honza sent me, and other 1/32 scale builds like Chucks build (http://www.arcforums.com/forums/air/index.php?showtopic=224033). I am not shooting for 100% accuracy, but I follow these references to get something that is roughly interesting.

Also, I am experimenting now with what I see as "discontinuous" riveting. After laying down a strip dymo tape, I run the riveter along the lines in fragments. I want to think it creates that barely visible sets of rivets, which do not run continuously. Here is what I mean:

Mottys-ROKAF-F-4E-Details-14_2007_10_06_151-LR.jpg

Photo credit: Darren Mottram.

More of his pics:

http://motty.hobbyvista.com/JAPKOR-TRIP-07/OSAN/Static/ROKAF-F-4E/Details/index.htm

Anyway, here is an example around the slat area:

IMG_7270.JPG

I am not sure how this will turn out. One concern is that at the end, it will look like poorly done panel lines, where the wash only sits in part of the panel line and not the whole thing. That to me is a frequent eyesore, and I fear the same might happen with this discontinuous riveting. Perhaps if I sand these out well, they will appear subtle enough that it won't be an issue.

On a different note, when I talk about riveting, there is the idea of panel screws versus actual rivets on the sheet metal. Clearly, the former set is the more obvious one. But that changes depending on the actual aircraft, the paint on it etc. So, I am really not distinguishing between the two, though I would very much appreciate if somebody had a diagram showing these differences.

Checking in on this build for the first time...........AWESOME work you're doing here. You're definitely paying attention to detail and it shows. Semi-hidden panel lines or rivet/fastener rows is something you see quite often on real subjects but as you mentioned and I agree, will probably detract from an otherwise good model if we try to represent the same effect....even if correct in real life. We as modelers sometimes go to great lengths to be as accurate as possible but sometimes I think you have to do whats best for the model. One really good example, at least in my eyes, is how a lot of EA-6B Prowlers have the nose number sitting crooked or at an angle relative to the longitudinal line of the aircraft. This bugs the heck out of me and if I ever built a Prowler, I would deviate from being accurate and place the numbers straight. In this case, locating the numbers correctly would always draw my attention and be an eye-sore for me.

Keep up the good work and good luck with the rest of the build.

Elmo

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Your rivet and panel line detailing makes a huge difference. Honestly, it's something that I have shied away from, even though I always plan it for my next build. After seeing the before and after effect on your 1/48 scale build, I'm going to "bite the bullet", and order the scribing and rivet tools from UMM-USA.

Joel

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Thank you all I appreciate it. Riveting is always a tricky and time consuming endeavor, with the potential of looking quite unrealistic. I just hope that whatever is left after the SEA camo will look reasonably interesting and not overdone. I wanted to try my best with the Hase kit before the Academy-E comes out and ruins all my aspirations for doing this :) I would definitely recommend the riveter and the scriber. For the latter, I recommend UMM Scriber-02 if your scale is 48 or 72.

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Hey Janissary, I am really enjoying your build. That is some real detail you are putting on there. I have been working rivets too with my A-10 build and I feel your pain but, the end result should be quite rewarding. I have been using the UMM 01 scriber on my build and I like it a lot (through trial and error.... mostly error! :D/>)

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I built the Academy F-4B and loved the kit. Just bought the F-4C today, and will be getting the F-4J next month. My objective is to build the best overall presentation model I can, so you riveting and panel line techniques are of extreme value to me.

Joel

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  • 2 months later...

Taggor, Joel, thank you very much. I'd be glad if you find some of my work useful. I have been working on several different things, here is a small update.

Silly putty to mask off the aux. inlets:

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Some work around the hud area:

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Just bought one bottle of this AK interactive. This particular one has a brownish tinge to it. I applied it to the cockpit sills and the IP coaming (all black areas). It leaves a nice dirty looking residue representative of older aircrafts:

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Exhaust nozzles and seats all painted:

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Detailing the fuel tanks. I really wanted to give the tank sealant a try. I first rescribed the fuel tank to create a slight groove, then glued styrene wire in sections:

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Then, sanded it down until it was barely noticable. Below, you see the original (top) and the sanded (bottom). Also created small holes, punched out a few disks to size, and places them in the holes to simulate what I believe are the fuel caps:

IMG_7414.JPG

Edited by Janissary
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A few more shots. I also added a few details to the pylons of the wing tanks:

IMG_7437.JPG

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Fixed the light positions. Also used a some styrene strips to make the front-to-mid fuselage joint "interesting"

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I wanted to use my Silhouette cutter to make the masks for the canopy. I first took a whole bunch of pictures similar to these ones:

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Then using the cutter's sw, traced the pictures and created the masks. Since not everything is flat, a few trial and errors were necessary:

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Here are my final templates. Feel free to use it in your builds:

48haseopencanopy.png

A few observations:

- Hasegawa's closed versus open canopy parts are drammatically different! I first tried to get these masks from the single piece (closed) canopy that comes in this kit. Those masks did not fit the 4 piece open canopy at all! So, the above templates are only for the open canopy parts as I noted in the picture.

- The above templates are not perfect on the computer (I used the Bezier curve tool after all, but still it is a manual process), but when they are cut, I think they look ok.

Edited by Janissary
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Thanks for posting the masks! They will come in handy indeed! I had wanted to ask and probably missed it but, what technique or material did you use to make the HUD reflector. It really stands out and looks great. I am really going to have to be "on my game" when I get to my Phantoms. Thanks for sharing so many of your "processes" with this build.

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Thank you very much guys. Taggor, for the part you mentioned, I used a thin iridescent film. I had learned about that from some other members over here. You can see more details in one of my previous builds F-18C It is some sort of a wrapping paper (I think), comes in a huge role, and is quite cheap. I got mine from Michaels.

Edited by Janissary
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Thank you very much guys. Taggor, for the part you mentioned, I used a thin iridescent film. I had learned about that from some other members over here. You can see more details in one of my previous builds F-18C It is some sort of a wrapping paper (I think), comes in a huge role, and is quite cheap. I got mine from Michaels.

Thank you for the link and the tip. I will be checking it out! Looking forward to your next update!

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Thank you Sernak, Taggor. Sernak, I really can't take credit for most of the things I do, it is all based on what I learn on forums like these. To me, Chuck's build and Zigi's build are of inspirational proportions when it comes to F-4Es.

Also, I wanted to express how impressed I have been with DoogsATX's build on LSM. I am studying his builds and they are out of this world. I will try a few of his techniques in my build. Simply fantastic!

A small update from cockpit masking. I am using silly putty for this purpose and it is extremely pliable:

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I simply use my fingers to press down the putty along the edges and it easily separates along a clean border. The excess portion is easily rolled up making cleanup straightforward:

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Covering up the rest using parafilm:

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Finished:

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Edited by Janissary
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  • 2 weeks later...

I wanted to rescribe the the raised details on the pylons. First took a picture of the original part to use it as a reference before sanding it all off:

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Rescribing in progress:

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Clean up: sanding, washing with water+toothbrush, Tamiya extra thin to smooth out the lines:

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Not everything is symmetrical or accurate, but hopefully no one will notice :)

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Edited by Janissary
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Finally onto priming! This stage is now where I usually have most fun. Surfacer 1200 + MM enamel gray primer, cut with Tamiya lacquer + Mr. Hobby levelling thinner combo. I was not shooting for full coverage, just wanted to make sure the plastic was at least covered by a thin layer of primer. I applied it in way that created a shading effect. Not that it will be visible or useful, but just how it is I guess. Once dry, I went over all the surfaces with an eye glass cleaning cloth to smooth out the primer.

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I see a lot of imperfections, but I will ignore them and move on :)

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Well done of the re-scribe of the pylons! If that were me, doing it there would probably be quite a bit of filler for the mistakes! Haha. The primer technique you are using is new to me and I am curious to see how it effects the top coat. Random light to dark I would imagine giving a subtle sense of faded paint I would think. Your moving along pretty good now. I can't wait to see it in color!

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you Taggor. Finally I am in the painting stage. I used a mix of Gunze H-311 and Tamiya white for the bottom:

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I decided to freehand the camo. I applied a thin coat of future after the primer, then drew the boundaries between the colors using a pencil. I went over these lines with Tamiya smoke to make them more pronounced. I thought it would make it easier for me to follow these lines, and also create the illusion of a darker boundary that I sometimes see between bordering colors:

IMG_7490.JPG

For the sand color, I think Gunze H-310 is too dark for TuAF Phantoms. So I tried to mix my own using Tamiya XF-59, yellow, buff, and white:

IMG_7489.JPG

Once done, I thought it was too yellowish. So I decided to start over and applied Surfacer 1200, followed by Tamiya white primer for shading. This was to match the mottled look of the primer elsewhere:

IMG_7491.JPG

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Edited by Janissary
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