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Posts posted by David_Aiken

  1. RLM 02 was not a primer, but rather a paint color that became the standard for the preservative on interior surfaces.

    Aloha All,

    Since 02 is for the interior application, what is the number for the exterior application for this color?



  2. Aloha John,

    In the Japanese REPLICA mag, Jan 1990, the largest article was "Shinjuwan no 101 Ki (Pearl Harbor and 101 Aircraft" by H. Yoshimura with M. Asano and many more Japanese and me. The article was reprinted in July 1993 along with additions, deletions and corrections. This is ON LINE at: http://groups.msn.com/japanesemodelaircraf...icajan1990.msnw

    Sidnei Maneta took the challenge and made artwork of all the aircraft including even MORE updates and corrections at: http://groups.msn.com/japanesemodelaircraf...oraircraft.msnw

    The ENGLISH text details much new material and is posted at: http://www.pearlharborattacked.com/cgi-bin...gi?;act=SF;f=11

    Be sure to click on the underlined text which leads to illustrations.

    Japan's top web site on Japanese WWII aviation is at: http://www5d.biglobe.ne.jp/~cocoro/index2.htm

    The NEW "find" data on Japanese color is posted at: http://www5d.biglobe.ne.jp/~cocoro/subw117-2.htm

    Tamiya has released for 1/48 and 1/32 new colors.... BASED on the above "find" TAMIYA color AS-29/XF-76 is THE basic gray-green seen at Pearl Harbor. SWEET has released this color, too, but lightened for 1/144 scale.

    The hard work by so many Japanese researchers is just now making its way thru American gray cells. I humbly appreciate being allowed to share this data with 'the west'.

    Cheers, the messenger...

    David Aiken, a Director: Pearl Harbor History Associates, Inc. http://www.pearlharbor-history.org/


    Two later version D3A2 exist in the USA which have an interior of FS34095 to FS34062 except for the instrument panels which are black.

    The interior of the D3A1 investigated was poorly photographed... shown at:


    The tiny markings (applied to a "neutral" exterior) is shown at: http://groups.msn.com/japanesemodelaircraf...90.msnw?Page=12

    On the port cowling is yet another stencil, detailed at: http://www.pearlharborattacked.com/cgi-bin...t=ST;f=11;t=308

    be sure to click on the underlined items which lead to photos!

    I said "neutral" exterior (above) as there were two base exterior colors applied to D3As at Pearl Harbor:


    For a view of the variety of Japanese schemes and colors for 7 Dec, see the known planes, illustrated by Sidnei Maneta, at: http://groups.msn.com/japanesemodelaircraf...oraircraft.msnw


    David Aiken, a Director: Pearl Harbor History Associates, Inc. http://www.pearlharbor-history.org/

  3. Aloha Grant,

    Much of what you ask is still 'in research' (no answer yet...any ideas are welcome!). Lots of blank spaces in Wheeler Field history, much better data for Hickam Field.

    has anyone come up with a good explanation of what the fuselage numbers would represent?

    Thus far, the large Buzz numbers SEEM to be issued to BOTH 15PG AND 18PG in the 100-390 range BY squadron...there are still problems to work out. A few photos and a rare few documents give such numbers.

    the light colored spinners

    there were PERHAPS four colors of spinners...red, blue, yellow, white. The white/yellow AND the red/blue are difficult to determine in B&W photos.

    the black painted P-26
    There is evidence that such existed. I await the research to be completed.


    David Aiken

  4. ... OD P-36A. The caption states, "Ground crews at Wheeler service a P-36 in front of Hangar 2." The authors state that they "..have been unable to determine whether this photograph was taken during the raid or just after it."

    The lead photo of "Pearl Harbor's Lost P-36", FLIGHT JOURNAL, Oct 2002, is this unique photo. The entire photo is shown in the magazine and shows the smoke from the hangar in the background...yes, this is a "Pearl Harbor" P-36...and the pilot is identified as "Lew Sanders"...despite the incomplete Buzz number info.

    Page 149 and 150 have photos of Rasmussen's P-36A, 48 15P with the fuselage number of 86. The serial number is said to be 38-86.

    The large Buzz number "86" is NOT the serial number. Sorry, there are no connections of the "Plane-in-Group" number on the tail, NOR the Buzz number ...to the serial numbers of the Wheeler based aircraft.


  5. This thread has helped me with it's various links, but one question that I have is what color was the interior on the P-36. Was it green zinc chromate? Or was it the bare aluminum like many planes prior to the war? I also want to model a pearl P-36. thanks

    Aloha All,

    P-36 cockpit was NMF... and check with Dana Bell for second confirmation.

    HTH, Cheers,


  6. I'd like to build as its green over IJN grey. I thought all the pearl raiders were overall IJN grey & the naval aviation didnt use dark greens till later in the war...

    Aloha Andy,

    Trojan is correct that on 7 Dec, Egusa flew his 'flame' D3A rather than his green D3A. He had both just before Pearl Harbor. We know that he flew aircraft "31", but we do not know which plane was "31" or whether both were.

    As to what we DO know of the 'flame' pattern is updated by the cover of SCALE AVIATION, March 2001...see: http://groups.msn.com/japanesemodelaircraf...amp;PhotoID=394

    Since March 2001, we have also learned that Soryu VALs were given the basic color of I3 mud (instead of the old stand-by J3 gray)...see: http://groups.msn.com/japanesemodelaircraf...&PhotoID=53

    For more on the TINY markings on the D3A, see: http://www5d.biglobe.ne.jp/~cocoro/sub55.htm


    David Aiken

  7. unless very new, japanese paints appeared very weathered on combat aircraft. this is probably due to poor paint composition and lack of priming and upkeep (aside from the hinomaru of course)

    Hi Jay, your words are very true for IJA aircraft which arrived in the field unpainted and were given field paint. The IJN carrier based KATEs given FIELD camouflage in late Oct-Nov 1941 at their training facilities were heavily weathered by April 1942. Yet we are really speaking of the IJN Zero cowling which was painted at the factory...and its combat life of ---what? say six months? or less?

    The Zuikaku Zeros were replaced in Jan 1942 after only a month to month and a half in combat. The Soryu Zeros were replaced in late March 1942 after four months of combat... the difference in cowling color surely would still be black within such a time frame. Tainan Kokutai changed planes in late March 1942 and again when the A6M3 arrived in June-Jul 1942... the cowling color should still be black considering such a short combat life.



  8. Aloha Trojan,

    Thanks for adding the differences between Mitsubishi and Nakajima procurement of black paint and the difference between the two seems to be that once it ages...the two supplier's paints show to have different components within the paint...

    What is the color when it is in the combat life of the plane. Is it still black?

    What is the color of other manufacturer aircraft...is there an aged blue-black among those aircraft?



  9. Japan's top web site on WWII Japanese aviation has an analysis of the new color document found in their archives: http://www5d.biglobe.ne.jp/~cocoro/subw117-2.htm

    This lists only ONE color in the "Q" family of colors for BLACK. Puzzled, I asked my many sensei to respond. Here is one responce:

    "Most important thing we have to remember is that the color was controlled by military standards. Therefore, there should not have been differences among color of each airplane manufacturers. Of course, even so, regional factor might have caused some difference. Mitsubishi was located in Western part of Japan and Nakajima was located in Eastern part of Japan. So, Mitsubishi might have used colors manufactured in Western area and Nakajima bought the color from companies located in Eastern region. Even today, it is almost impossible to produce 100% same color in different timing and location. There might have been this kind of difference and tendency. Black on cowling might be an example of this. After 1943, all material was controlled by a ministry. This means that ministry decided all allocation of material. After this happened, talking about color difference has less meaning."


    David Aiken

  10. My friend Tia was asking... how many aircraft the US got into the air to fight the Japanese on 7 Dec, 1941.

    Howdy illith...

    Have you counted up a total yet? ....surprised?



  11. Old Blind Dog

    Aloha Blind Dog,

    Glad this Nishkin Halupa A Pe Lachi could serve as guide and helper to a blind dog....


    David Aiken

    "Nishkin Halupa A Pe Lachi" is Choctaw for "Eagle eyed helper"

  12. An A6M2 crashed into the one right behind our house.

    A great book on the subject is "The Way it Was: Pearl Harbor, The Original Photographs".

    Aloha nui loa "lator...",

    The A6M2 was piloted by PO1c Takeshi Hirano, Akagi. Hickam AFB now has cognizance over the land where "Ft Kam" once stood...and has placed a marker for the crash near an old Hawaiian Air Guard hangar where Building 52 once stood...site of the Zero crash. for more see my article "Oahu Island Zero (Hirano Petty Officer First Class Aircraft) Technical Report: Report of a Mysterious Hinomaru Fighter Crashed in Pearl Harbor", ***** (Japanese mag), Feb 2006...posted at: http://groups.msn.com/japanesemodelaircraf...bor.msnw?Page=6

    Oh, check the acknowledgements within "The Way it Was: Pearl Harbor, The Original Photographs"...

    Mahalo, Cheers,

    David Aiken

  13. :salute: Fair enough....unfortunately, Japanese is not one of my languages....I assumed not based on language, but because of your salutation "David Aiken, a director: Pearl Harbor History Associates, Inc."

    Howdy Andrew,

    Pearl Harbor History Associates, Inc., a non-profit study group founded by members of the Pearl Harbor Survivors Association, seeks to carry the flag of "Keeping the Record Straight" by holding steadfast to the truth of the battle and dispel the myths that continue to crop up. Currently the PHHA is based in Stratford, CT, yet that means the current slate of officers (from California, Missouri, Montana, Virginia, CT, Texas, and Hawaii) have the HQ there. The vote is in and the HQ is to move to Oklahoma soon.

    Knowledge of both Hawaiian and Japanese greatly helps with any deep study of the Pearl Harbor Attack. Hawaiian salutations help keep 'in the spirit of Aloha' as do greetings to Japanese researchers in their language. I extend to you the opportunity of a deeper study of Pearl Harbor at the largest WWII URL on the internet: http://www.pearlharbor-history.org/ The "Pearl Harbor Attacked" message board has had over 100,000 hits in one day (alas, that was 11 Sept 2001)!


    David Aiken, a student of 7 Dec 1941

  14. Cheers, David! I'm assuming you're based in Hawaii, then? Should've looked you up last December when I was there for the 65th observances with the Arizona's survivors....

    Moshi Moshi...

    Konbanwa Andrew San,

    Gomen nasai, shikata ganai... do not make error to use language to give home town.

    Dai toa senso kokan senshi, Shinjuwan Sakusen sensei,


    D. Aiken

  15. Aloha All,

    The aircraft airborne during the whole day is given in "Ghosts of Pearl Harbor", FLIGHT JOURNAL, June 2007 issue...and includes the following info for aircraft airborne DURING the attack...

    Ah, yes! We had some fighters in the air...a rare few:

    Taylor got one VAL on his first flight and shared one VAL with Welch; then two more VALs on his second but got credit for only two.

    Welch claimed two VALs on his first flight, but one was a share with Taylor, and two planes (one was a VAL) on his second mission and got credit for four.

    John Dains got in the air next and about ten years ago we learned he shot down a VAL. He was killed on his third flight by Schofield Barracks fire (ala the scene in FROM HERE TO ETERNITY) as he was trying to land at nearby Wheeler Field.

    Harry Brown and Bob Rogers attacked a VAL, both put in claims but the plane went down.

    Brown joined up with Mike Moore to attack two planes, years later we find they were Zeros. Both Zeros never returned to their carriers.

    George Whiteman got his wheels off the ground just as Zeros hit the airfield. He crashed at the end of the runway. Whiteman AFB, MO is in his memory.

    Sam Bishop was able to get in the air immediately after Whiteman, with the attacking Zeros diverted by Whiteman. However, he did not make it far as the Zeros caught up with him. Wounded he crashed off shore and waded ashore.

    Four P-36s [Lew Sanders, John Thacker, Gordon Sterling, Phil Rasmussen] got in the air from Wheeler and were vectored to Kaneohe, where they bounced SIX Zeros! Two MORE Zeros joined the fray! Gordon Sterling was lost and is STILL MIA. Read more about these P-36s at: http://www.flightjournal.com/ME2/dirmod.as...7AD26DF526DDD7E

    John Webster attacked a pair of fighters with his P-40, but was wounded for the effort.

    Fred Shifflet made a circle of Pearl Harbor to seek out enemy aircraft, flew over Hickam Field and was filled with AA fire. He deadsticked the P-40 back to Wheeler Field to land on flat tires.

    William Haney got hit by Pearl Harbor fire on BOTH of his sorties and had to return to Wheeler each time with a dead engine.

    Woodrow Willmot, Aaron Tyer, Francis Gabreski, and Henry Lawrence avoided Pearl Harbor fire, but never saw the enemy. Gabreski ended WWII as the highest European Theater of Operations ace.

    A sortie of 25 fighter pilots got airborne at 0930 just after Wheeler was strafed. Names are sought.

    Well, I outlined above the fighters. Add to that 18 SBDs from USS Enterprise that flew into war (six were lost, of which ground fire got one) and a dozen B-17s came in from California...(two were lost).

    Then comes the movie TORA-TORA-TORA ...remember the lady instructor that joined up with a Japanese formation? ...she was depicting SEVERAL storys combined into one character. There were actually EIGHT light single engined civilian planes in the air, ALL but one came under attack...THREE were shot down [of the three, two are still missing].

    Also coming from California to arrive during the attack was the PanAm Clipper ship ANZAC. Fortunately, they got news of the attack as they neared the Oahu coast and made it to Hilo, Hawaii. The Ambassador to the US from Burma [and his sectretary] was aboard.

    At 0620 three PBYs got in the air to do anti-sub searching. One found a midget sub and helped USS Ward sink it. These were diverted to search for the Japanese carriers.

    At 0700 four PBYs got in the air to do a "problem" with submarine USS Gudgeon off the island of Lanai. They were diverted to search for the Japanese carriers...one flew into a Japanese VAL formation for an air-to-air battle.

    At 0915-0930, while USS Nevada was being hit by VALs, a PBY got into the waters off Ford Island and got airborne down the main channel toward the entrance with the intent to search for the Japanese carriers.

    PBY pilot Ted Marshall got so mad at the loss of his PBY that he went to the old Luke Field side of Ford Island and got into a few aircraft until he found a TBD that operated. He followed and attacked a Japanese unit until the fuel guage said "return".

    A B-18 was on Molokai. The crew were told to "return to their duty base" at Wheeler. They arrived over Oahu to be fired on by Ft Ruger fire, then Hickam fire, and landed at Wheeler just after a Japanese strafing attack.

    Within three hundred miles of Oahu, USS Enterprise put up a four plane combat air patrol, and an inner air patrol of two bombers...then more planes.

    the roster above is also given in: Stan Cohen: EAST WIND RAIN [Missoula, MT: Pictorial Histories Pub; 1981, revised 1991, corrected 1994, retitled as ATTACK ON PEARL HARBOR - A Pictorial History in 2000] page 97-98


    David Aiken, a director: Pearl Harbor History Associates, Inc.


    Aloha Larry,

    There are a few copies left. In 1986 the final issue of the Japanese Info Clearinghouse PACIFIC FRONT was the OSCAR special. This contained just over 40 OSCAR photos from Oshkosh; Okinawa; Hollandia, New Guinea; China... a technical intelligence investifgation of an OSCAR II; and the illustrations from the technical manuals for the OSCAR I and III. There are a few copies left at $8 plus $4 S&H in North America.


    David Aiken

    Pearl Harbor History AT Hotmail Dot Com

  16. IJN aircraft recovered 50 years later still had relatively bright red emblems intact on the LOWER wing surface, yet darkened on the upper surface.

    - Yes, 50 years later, but unlikely during the 6 to 18 months of a given aircraft's life expectancy.

    Don Thorpe cited a WWII edict that went out...to seek out bright wing insignia as a sign of a green pilot; darker wing insignia may be a vet.

    Check out the colors used by the Japanese:




    D. Ai-ken

  17. Thanks for the info, Mr. Aiken..didn't realize you were on this forum, or I would have just waited and let you reply!


    Aloha Steve,

    I listen for a long time...and I learn as a result! I am often humbled by those who quote me...and at the same time I find there are MANY folk who know much more than me. I love to learn and love it when I am proved wrong! Your posts are quite knowledged and I had only hoped to tweek some of the data.



  18. Ohayo gozaimasu,

    IJN aircraft recovered 50 years later still had relatively bright red emblems intact on the LOWER wing surface, yet darkened on the upper surface.

    "Back in the 70s or 80s, there were various publications that suggested that Japanese insignia turned to a dark brick red color through weathering. Subsequently, decal makers like Microscale and others jumped on the brick red bandwagon. Where are those publications now?" They still exist and the data is still viable...and Don Thorpe's IJN C&M volume (1977) still has that data, too...

    "By skipping the priming stage (like many modelers), it saved in both manufacturing time and weight. Aircraft were not expected to last very long, so the longevity of the finish was not a high priority." Alas, be wary when saying "skipping of the priming stage" ...the IJA did not prime, the IJN did universally until early 1945! Be careful.


    D. Ai-ken, Shinjuwan Sakusen sensei

  19. The Japanese had inferior quality paint as compared to almost all other countries in WW2. You will find much more faded, massively chipped, or just missing chunks of paint on Japanese craft than you will on other nations' aircraft. I would think that with the sun, the high humidity, the salt spray, the wind, the sand (from the PTO) that the halflife of paint on a Japanese plane was measured in mere months.

    Aloha Mark,

    It is also unique that the upper surface hinomaru turned darker, just like blood...within months.



  20. How long would it have taken in the Pacific or Asian sun for the color shift to become noticable? Days? Months? Years? Considering the average lifespan of a Japanese aircraft was probably less than a year, how much would the color have changed in that time?

    Don Thorpe cited a WWII edict that went out...to seek out bright wing insignia as a sign of a green pilot; darker wing insignia may be a vet.



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