Experimental Mustangs

[Rob_Haelterman]

I just went through my Warbird Tech copy of the P-51 and rediscovered a picture of a mock up with a mid-mounted engine (à la P-63). I suppose this never went any further than that, but was wondering if more pictures exist ?

It would have been fitted with a Griffon. It has always surprised me that this was not attempted on a regular P-51. If it worked for the Spitfire, why couldn't it be made to work on the P-51 ?

Last question. Was there ever any attempt to fit the P-51 with longer span wings to improve high altitude performance ?

TIA

Rob

[Slartibartfast]

US Government was never pleased to be paying royalties to Rolls-Royce for Packard to build the Merlin, they SURELY wouldn't pay for the Griffon, too.

Was the high-altitude performance bad enough to warrant longer wings? I mean, there wasn't a lot of fighting above 10,000 meters.

[HGE]

Actually I believe the Mustang went back to ( a refined) Allison engine ( See P-51H)

As for longer wings... Nope it didn't happen

Henry

[kitnut617]

A good book to get hold off is called Rolls Royce and the Mustang by David Birch. You can get it from the Rolls Royce Heritage Trust. I bought this book after I found on Unicraft's website a conversion for a mid engined Mustang. I did some searching and found that RR had actually proposed an aircraft like this to the Air Ministry in the early 40's.

Here is a link to some photos of two of these aircraft I build from the conversion and after talks with David Birch. Although none ever flew, there was an 80% fully metal mock-up built of the definitive version.

http://groups.msn.com/TheWhatifandoddballm...mp;PhotoID=2099

You can click through all the photos from this link.

<_< Robert

Edited November 16, 2006 by kitnut617

[kitnut617]

Actually I believe the Mustang went back to ( a refined) Allison engine ( See P-51H)

As for longer wings... Nope it didn't happen

Henry

Actually Henry that's not true, the H used a Merlin too. see here;

http://home.att.net/~jbaugher1/p51_13.html

[Rob_Haelterman]

Robert,

thanks for building those models.

It gives a very good idea how the plane would have looked like !

For all the books I have on the Mustang, I never saw any mention of a P-51E, so started speculating if it might have been a project that had eluded me.

The idea of longer wings would have made sense to me as it would have made a very good high altitude reconnaissance plane, as did the Griffon, but of course I was just day-dreaming.

I'll consider building one nonetheless.

;-)

Thanks to you all

Rob

[kitnut617]

Robert,

thanks for building those models.

It gives a very good idea how the plane would have looked like !

For all the books I have on the Mustang, I never saw any mention of a P-51E, so started speculating if it might have been a project that had eluded me.

The idea of longer wings would have made sense to me as it would have made a very good high altitude reconnaissance plane, as did the Griffon, but of course I was just day-dreaming.

I'll consider building one nonetheless.

;-)

Thanks to you all

Rob

Hi Rob,

The RR book has a number of photos of the Private Venture fighter and the subsequent Flying Test Bed. There's even some photos of parts that had got made and IIRC still survive today. I was told by David Birch that the 1/10 wind tunnel model still survives because he knows the guy who has it. I was able to verify some dimensions I needed for my models by asking David to ask this fellow (David didn't give me a direct contact to him) to measure the model he has. There's also a bit more information about this RR Mustang in the RR book called the Rolls Royce Crecy, also by David Birch.

Robert

[HGE]

Kitnut you're right I was thinking of the f-82. One of the books I have has them on the same page..

Thanks, Henry

[Slartibartfast]

The P-51E was a paper airplane...a project with an assigned designator that was then cancelled before any metal cut.

[kitnut617]

Kitnut you're right :blink: I was thinking of the f-82. One of the books I have has them on the same page..

Thanks, Henry

Hi Henry,

Yes that would be right, but did you know that the XP-82 and the P-82A and IIRC the P-82C were all powered by the Merlin. The P-82B was the first Allison engined P-82, which incidently had it's propellers rotation in the same direction, not like all the other versions which have counter rotating props.

I've a few models of the F-82, one is the Hobbycraft issue which is identical to the Monogram/Revell kits except one thing, it has the same propeller for both engines. So really the kit should be of the P-82B not the G it advertizes it as. Mind you, you have to revise the exhaust style and not use the huge radar pod. If it had any pod it would be the smaller AN/APS-6 RADAR POD like you find on a Skyraider or Avenger

Robert

[Rob_Haelterman]

The P-51E was a paper airplane...a project with an assigned designator that was then cancelled before any metal cut.

Thanks !

do you have any idea what it would have been like ?

Rob

[kitnut617]

Thanks !

do you have any idea what it would have been like ?

Rob

It would appear to have been a regular Mustang but built in Dallas. Check this link and scroll down a bit.

http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/P-51_Variants.html

Are you sure you're not mixing it with the F, which was a light weight version with a totally redesigned airframe

Cheers, Robert

Edited November 17, 2006 by kitnut617

[Rob_Haelterman]

Are you sure you're not mixing it with the F, which was a light weight version with a totally redesigned airframe

Robert,

I had info on all versions mentioned in that interesting link, except for the E,L & M.

I always thought it strange they would have jumped from D to F, so was hoping for a very interesting variant hidden behind that designator. Sadly it isn't.

Thanks to you all for the input

Rob

[kitnut617]

I know what you mean Rob, I've tried to follow the history of the P-39, the production version being the Q. What ever happened to the rest of them?

Robert

[Rob_Haelterman]

I know what you mean Rob, I've tried to follow the history of the P-39, the production version being the Q. What ever happened to the rest of them?

Robert

They did that so that crazy guys like me can fantasize about them, and eventually build one to their own liking ???

:(

Well, that's what I will be doing with the Mustang. My P-51E will be one with longer span wings, a tail plug, enlarged rudder and a Griffon. Or I might call it a P-51N.

If Luftwaffe '46 fans can have their way, why not do the same with a USAAF '46... apart from the fact that the USA still had an air force in 1946.

They would have needed an answer to the Ta152H, didn't they ?

PS: quite a number of designators were used for the P-39 before they arrived at the Q

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-39_Airacobra

Ok, less sniffing, more gluing !

Cheers

Rob aka Mad Maths

Edited November 18, 2006 by Rob_Haelterman