1/48 Tamiya Spitfire Vb. Trop

[Edgar]

Whichever one doesn't have the belts appearing through the hole in the backrest. This is a misconception, and certainly didn't apply to the V.

Edgar

[Harvs]

Gday guys,

I know nothing in regards to Spitfires, and was wanting to do an example from RAAF.

My question is can i use a Tamiya MK.Vb to do a Mk Vc example? What are the differences between the two? Is there a link anyone can provide which will help me decipher the different variants of the RAAF spits?

Thanks in advance, Josh

Josh, as has been said previously, the biggest difference is the wings. This is correctable, depending on how much you are willing to spend you could buy the Red Roo conversion set for the kit. It is pricey at close to $50. Red Roo also does decals for a variety of different RAAF aircraft. The other option in 1/48 is the Special Hobby kit, this can be painful depending on how your modelling skills are.

http://www.aussiemodeller.com/pages/Review...rvsSpit_Vc.html

The other option is dependant on how much the accuracy of the model is to you. Can you tell the difference and do you care? If you don't want to spend the money and the difference is not a problem then you can leave the Vb wing as is and few would really know the difference. It is YOUR model and you can do what you want with it.

[bigjim]

Thanks Edgar and Harvs for your responses.

Harvs, i saw the conversion kit last night and also read the review you attached. I think this is the way to go, although i may need more practice before attempting what looks like quite a difficult conversion for a novice.

Thanks again,

Josh

[Matt]

Man, ww2 stuff hurts my head. Would anyone be able to tell me which ultracast seat i want for the spitfire? they have 3 or 4 different ones.

Putting aside the question of how the Sutton Harness should route, Ultracast have 5 seats.

48198 and 48199 are 'early' metal seats without and with a moulded in harness. Good for early '40 and before.

48149 is the 'late' seat (often referred to as the bakelite seat) without harnesses.

48020 is the 'late' seat with Sutton Harness

48068 is the 'late' seat with the late/postwar Q harness. I'm not 100% on when that came into common service, but almost certainly not for a Vb

So, for a Vb ,either 48020 or 48149 depending on whether you want harnesses moulded in or not.

My personal take is that even if the way Ultracast route the lower harness on their seats is incorrect, they are still much better than the kit seat and decal straps, and still better and easier than anything I could do with tape and wire, so I use them without reservation. The only question is how they have the 'Y' strap routed, which isn't especially noticeable, unless you really know what you are looking for. If you are just looking for something quick and easy to dress up the kit cockpit then go for the 48020. If accuracy is everything to you, then go with the 48149 and make a harness from tape and wire. Fortunately the Sutton was relatively simple.

Cheers,

Matt

[Edgar]

I'd like, if I may, to clear up a couple of misconceptions:- first, there was no such thing as a "Q" harness (I'll return to that, later.) The plastic seat was introduced, from 14-5-40 "as alternative design to assist production and provide alternative manufacture." It did not replace the metal seat.

The Sutton harness, albeit in various forms, remained in use, in the Spitfire throughout the war. Originally, it was known as, simply, the Sutton, then it became the "Sutton K." I suspect that the "K" designation was just a way for the manufacturers to know what sizes, and quantities, of straps to use (Hurricanes used "F" or "L" type Suttons.)

A modification (922) introduced the "QK" harness (still a Sutton,) from the Mark VII, onwards (except the XII, for some reason,) but with the proviso that the seat had to be strengthened, the mod being 1117. This, I think, is when, for another unknown reason, the harness could be routed through the hole in the backrest, however there is no date, so it appears to be an "if, and when" mod. Certainly, I've found two seat drawings, one Spitfire, one Seafire, which say that the hole is for the harness, but both are for metal seats (so, you see, there were metal seats after 1940.) There is also a note, to the mod 1117, which states that the wall thickness must be more than .15".

From 6-8-46, the "QS" harness was introduced, and this is the first type to include a quick-release (like a parachute) box, and it did away with the rear "Y" strap, leaving just four to do the job. There's a drawing, around 1945, for a "QL," but it doesn't appear to have had any use. The harness in the PCM Mk.IX is a perfect example of a QS harness. From 21-2-50, the QS was rerouted, slightly, and became the "ZB." At some time, post-war, reference is made to the "Q" harness, but it's for the QS, not the earlier types.

Edgar

[Matt]

Thanks Edgar, I thought you might have more details.

Do you know what the differences were between the Sutton K and the later QK ? Anything obvious or just minor improvements ?

From this, its fair to say that the Quick Release style of harness is for post war Spitfires only ? Any thoughts as to whether they would be for post war production or would have been retrofitted to existing aircraft that survived into the postwar ?

Cheers,

Matt

[Edgar]

The only difference, that I've found, is that the QK had a longer cable attachment at the bottom of the Y strap, than formerly. I think that this was to allow the harness to come through that hole, and still give the pilot some freedom. In April 1941, the harness was modified, with a short cable, also "to give more freedom of movement." It's possible that the inclusion of armour caused some constriction, hence the introduction of cabling. When under-seat armour was included, it could have made things even worse.

With so few early Spitfires flying post-war, it's difficult to be certain about the harnesses. As with the QK, the post-war QS could only be fitted to strengthened seats, in fact seats had to be strengthened, again, to accept the QS fittings, since the lapstraps became hip straps, and moved back to the corners of the seats, instead of being attached to the seat supports. Of course seats were easily replaced, so I would expect XIVs and XVIs, built before the QS changeover date, could still have been fitted with the new items. But, then, would a pilot, who'd flown throughout the war, have readily accepted the new harness? :D

Edgar

The top LH corner shows the method of fixing the Y strap; as it is, here, the strap is almost the same width as the hole, so the cable was lengthened for the special seats. Incidentally, the drawing is numbered 351--, which signifies that it was destined for the Mk.VII.

Edited January 20, 2009 by Edgar