1/48 Ocidental Harvard

[rm20886]

Last night I started this build as a gift for my father-in-law. He trained as a pilot in Gimli Manitoba late in WW2. He didn't have the opportunity to fight in the war as it ended around the time he completed his pilot training. During his training he had an incident where the landing gear gave in during a landing. He belly landed the aircraft on the runway. Shortly before the Harvard came to a stop it spun around sliding backward until it came to a complete stop. He has a photo of the aircraft showing the prop bent forward from the backwards slide. The planes identification numbers are not visable in the photo and he no longer has his log. I would love to build a little diorama of the scene, but without the proper numbers I am going to present him with a clean undamaged Harvard.

I chose the Ocidental kit and so far I am not disappointed.This build will be OOB with the exception of some added seatbelts.

Here are a couple shots of the cockpit after I sprayed it with Humbrol 120 light green.

Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Rob

[Helidriver]

Looks good. Should be an interesting comparison to the Revell one I'm building. I can see some small differences in the kits already...

Ken

[rm20886]

Well I finally had some time to work on this kit. I am just about finished the cockpit and will soon seal up the fuselage and get her painted. I added photo etch seat belts and changed the control sticks to the spade style which I believe was used in the Canadian Harvard. A little dry brushing and minor detailing.

[rcaf_100]

Looking good!

It's probably too late now, but the Harvards only have the spade grip in the front cockpit, with a pistol-grip in the back.

Also, you should probable sand off the large raised panel on the right side of the fuselage.

This was only present on postwar USAF T-6G's and never on any Canadian Harvard.

If you need to know anything else reference-wise let me know. I help keep a fleet of these in the air.

[rm20886]

Thanks RCAF!

It's not to late at all. I'll replace the control stick in the back and sand down the panel on the right.

I do have a few things that you could help me with:

1. Is the green house framing painted interior green on the inside?

2. Did they use RCAF roundels found or did they use the roundels with the maple leaf in the middle during WW2?

3. There are several choices with the ADF. Which would be the most accurate for a WW2 trainer?

Thanks again for all of your assistance.

Rob

[rcaf_100]

1. Is the green house framing painted interior green on the inside?

'Interior green' was not used on Harvards. The green used was a very dark green (I believe it's called 'bronze green'), similar to WW2 Japanese Navy Dark Green.

And yes it would have been green on the inside of the canopy at the end of the war.

Probably best to mask the canopy then paint the green on the outside first (so it shows through) then the white primer, then yellow.

Here's a photo of some panels off my NA-64 Yale project.

The center panel is the 'bronze green' while the other two panels are in a shade I'm not too familiar with.

Perhaps the NAA factory green for the Harvard? (Yales came painted silver EVERYWHERE from the factory)

2. Did they use RCAF roundels found or did they use the roundels with the maple leaf in the middle during WW2?

The 'RCAF roundel' with the leaf wasn't introduced until 1948.

Wartime RCAF markings were identical to wartime RAF markings.

3. There are several choices with the ADF. Which would be the most accurate for a WW2 trainer?

ADF's were not fitted until postwar so don't worry about it.

A handful of Harvards used during the war as airborne wireless trainers were fitted with manually-operated football loop antennas that had clear housings, but were not used at an SFTS, where your Dad was.

Depending on the specific model of Harvard, the markings would have varied.

Throughout the war Harvards used type A, B, and C roundels and three different kinds of fin flash!

One thing that is bugging me is that No. 18 SFTS Gimli only flew Avro Ansons during the war.

Postwar it used Harvards as No. 2 Flying Training School (No. 2 FTS later moved to Moose Jaw).

Perhaps he flew there postwar or at another school during the war?

If you can get a close look at the photo of the Harvard your Dad 'bent' it might shed some details on whether or not it was during the war.

Edited December 11, 2011 by rcaf_100

[rm20886]

'Interior green' was not used on Harvards. The green used was a very dark green (I believe it's called 'bronze green'), similar to WW2 Japanese Navy Dark Green.

And yes it would have been green on the inside of the canopy at the end of the war.

Probably best to mask the canopy then paint the green on the outside first (so it shows through) then the white primer, then yellow.

Here's a photo of some panels off my NA-64 Yale project.

The center panel is the 'bronze green' while the other two panels are in a shade I'm not too familiar with.

Perhaps the NAA factory green for the Harvard? (Yales came painted silver EVERYWHERE from the factory)

The 'RCAF roundel' with the leaf wasn't introduced until 1948.

Wartime RCAF markings were identical to wartime RAF markings.

ADF's were not fitted until postwar so don't worry about it.

A handful of Harvards used during the war as airborne wireless trainers were fitted with manually-operated football loop antennas that had clear housings, but were not used at an SFTS, where your Dad was.

Depending on the specific model of Harvard, the markings would have varied.

Throughout the war Harvards used type A, B, and C roundels and three different kinds of fin flash!

One thing that is bugging me is that No. 18 SFTS Gimli only flew Avro Ansons during the war.

Postwar it used Harvards as No. 2 Flying Training School (No. 2 FTS later moved to Moose Jaw).

Perhaps he flew there postwar or at another school during the war?

If you can get a close look at the photo of the Harvard your Dad 'bent' it might shed some details on whether or not it was during the war.

Thanks again for your help.

It might be late to change the interior colour now so I'll leave it as is.

We may have some incorrect information on Gimli. To keep this a secret from him I have been gathering information from my mother-in-law. She may have the story a little confused. I`ll get a copy of the Harvard he crashed and post it here. It will be after Christmas as I won`t see him until then.

Where are your Harvards located? I am wondering if they are at Hamiliton in the Warplane Museum. I grew up in Niagara Falls and have been to the museum a few times when I have been back for a visit.

Rob

[rcaf_100]

Where are your Harvards located? I am wondering if they are at Hamilton in the Warplane Museum. I grew up in Niagara Falls and have been to the museum a few times when I have been back for a visit.

It's the Canadian Harvard Aircraft Association in Tillsonburg (like the little picture in my signature says) :)

Although I am a member at CWH, they only have two Harvards. I get to work on eight of them (six airworthy and two under restoration)

If you're ever down this way again let me know and I can give you a hangar tour.

And now that I look at the picture I posted again I guess that other green is just zinc chromate (normally yellow) with some black mixed in, probably done at an RCAF repair depot mid-war.

[rm20886]

I have been able to get some really good modelling time in over the weekend. I want to thank RCAF100 for all of your input to help me with this project. I was not able to do everything you suggested but I learned a lot.

I was able to get the fuselage sealed up, wings on, engine built and installed. I also used MV lenses for the landing lights and will use the lenses for the navigation lights once the painting is completed.

Now I am on to masking the canopy. I really don't care mush for this step.

Here is a shot of the beast. Not pretty, but I hope that will change as the painting process begins.

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Rob

Edited December 19, 2011 by rm20886

[ALF18]

Really nice job. You're lucky to get help from such an expert.

What do you think the odds are that your father in law will still remember the tail number? If he no longer has his log book from the time, he may not know what the number is. I know if you ask me the tail number of aircraft I flew while at the Big 2 in Moose Jaw (Tutors), I will draw a blank. My first solo? The aircraft my Dad and I flew for his last flight in the Air Force in 1984?

Knowing how busy the school was at the time, it is possible he really doesn't recall, leaving the possibility open to do up the diorama... It's your project, so do it the way you want to. You can take or leave suggestions from the peanut gallery.

ALF

[Scooby]

Belcher Bits has postwar Canadian Harvard decals, I think Belcher had wartime Canadian Harvard decals but they may be out of production now, I am sure I bought them.

[rcaf_100]

Sweet!

I also used MV lenses for the landing lights and will use the lenses for the navigation lights once the painting is completed.

I should point out that the nav lights differed between the Mk II and Mk 4. On the Occidental kit they have them molded on the very tip of the wing (for the Mk 4).

The Mk II had one on the top and bottom of each wing just inboard of the wingtip panel.

[rm20886]

Well I finally finished the Harvard. Man, this is the first build I have finished this year!

I was under a lot of pressure to get this done for Christmas. If it wasn't for the deadline I may haven't of finished. Again I would like to thank everyone who gave me so much great informtion for this build. There was some confusion on the actual dates in which my FIL flew the Harvard in Gimli but we now have that straight. It was in the spring of 1951 he was in training. I decided to use the marking that came with the Occidental kit which would represent after WW2.

I'll take a couple of shots later to show the presention to my FIL.

Thanks again RCAF. I think I am going to build another Harvard using more of the tips you provided.

Rob

[rm20886]

So more and more of the story have come out now.

Hidden away in his secret hiding place was his pilots log book. We looked for that before I started this project with no luck. He gets up and comes back with it in less than a minute.

Looking at the log book it was on May 28, 1951 he took his first solo flight in Harvard 2785. During the landing the landing gear gave out and the plane spun around going down the runway backwards. This bent the prop forward which can in a photo he has. I don't have a scanner now so I can't show it here but will later on.

This is a photo of the log book entry showing his first solo flight.

I presented him with the model and he is delighted. It has spawned many great stories of his training days flying the Harvard.

Rob

[rcaf_100]

Nice job! Glad he liked it!

So Harvard 2785 is also special as it was used by the National Research Council in 1943 to test a wooden rear fuselage. (in case aluminum became scarce)

It was later re-converted back to its standard configuration and after being struck off in 1957 it was sent to France under the Mutual Aid program.

I first thought that Harvard '191' was our very own 3191 here at Tillsonburg, but upon looking into it further, it was probably AH191, which also went to France in '57.

[rm20886]

Nice job! Glad he liked it!

So Harvard 2785 is also special as it was used by the National Research Council in 1943 to test a wooden rear fuselage. (in case aluminum became scarce)

It was later re-converted back to its standard configuration and after being struck off in 1957 it was sent to France under the Mutual Aid program.

I first thought that Harvard '191' was our very own 3191 here at Tillsonburg, but upon looking into it further, it was probably AH191, which also went to France in '57.

He hasn't stopped talking all day about his time in Gimli flying. He has given me his Pilot Log, I can send more of it to you if it of interest. Maybe some of the aircraft you have he has flown.

I guess I'll have to find another kit and start building 2785. As he recalls, he thinks it had the same control stick in both the front and rear. Building this bird was a lot of fun, with the exception of masking the canopy.

Here is the photo of 2785 after his first solo flight. He was saying this kind of thing happened every a couple of days around Gimli.

Notice the prop bent backwards. He said the plane did a 180 and slid backwards. He figures he hit the toe brakes to hard when he touched causing the plane to twist around collapsing both landing gears. Sounds like one heck of a ride.

Rob

[rm20886]

So that's a wrap.

The Harvard is done, complete, fini!

Onto the next project. I need to decal my Mustang for the Mustang GB.

Thanks for looking.

Rob

[rm20886]

OOPS

I forgot to post a shot of the presentation.

Thanks for looking.

Rob

[mikereg]

very nice :D

[Drake64]

From the picture it seems that he really appreciated the gift and is the best satisfaction

Roberto