Where are all those creative dioramists out there?

[JohnReid]

:wacko:

[JohnReid]

I dont mean to be pushy you guys but the aircraft diorama sites seem to be the hardest to get off the ground.Believe me,I know of what I speak.

There was little feedback at Digital Dioramas from the airplane guys when they were in business.I have run a "How to........... build on another site with some success but still with little feedback(which I put down to the scale I work in and the limited subject matter)The armour guys dont seem to have this problem and an auto site that I am helping to get off the ground is doing really well.

I thought that ARC with its large membership and the fact that the subject matter is open to any era, in any scale would help.Maybe I am just too anxious to see this forum succeed as I really do believe that the interest in dioramas is there.Any ideas or suggestions? Cheers! John.

[Mark S.]

John:

I've had dioramas since starting modeling in the 60's. I used my former train board 4' x 8' as my first. I have several now including one 4 x 8 with TABV shelters and revetments from the cold war era. Additionally I routinely build hangers or sunshades for my display.

Currently I'm trying to get reference marterial for two WW II displays. One an 8th airfield to display bombers and fighters the other a Pacific island scheme for B-29's, B-24's and Marine Corps. fighters.

I'll post pics soon of some of my existing work although it's never finished.

Questions I have:

Size of a B-17, B-24 hardstand?

Paved surfaces; Asphalt or concrete at bomber airfields?

Size of matting at fighter revements?

Mark

[JohnReid]

Mark,I am sorry but I cant answer any of your questions B) The era I mostly model is WW1 and barnstormer.But I am sure someone here on this forum has the answer.Try Props.Cheers! John.

[Matt]

For what its worth, here's my 2c.

I don't think aircraft lend themselves as easily to dioramas as other subjects.

The natural element for aircraft is in the air, that is where great aircraft stories are told, and a good diorama should tell a story. With rare exceptions, the nearest we get to this are 'in-flight' displays. Can an inflight display be called a diorama if there is nothing else but the subject or subjects ? I don't know. Trying to produce a more complex in-flight 'diorama' that tells a story is a tricky proposition. Aircraft are big, and the scales are huge. I've always wanted to do a Battle of Britain in flight dogfight type display. If one were to be accurate in scale and distance, even in 1/72 the thing would take up a room. Shorten all the distances and now the aircraft are unrealisticaly close. You can use different scales to force the perspective and forshorten the distances, but even if you can find the subjects in ever decreasing scales, this is still a large display.

So, the easiest Dioramas for aircraft are on the ground. How many 'stories' are there to be told beyond "here's the subject sitting on a hard standing" ? Certainly not as many as one could dream up for an Armour subject.

The other problem for doing dioramas for aircraft is the availability of suitable accessories (anything other than the subject itself, figures, vehicles, buildings etc) in the scales that we model in. The most obvious projects end up having to be considered as a 1/32-1/35 mix, and 1/32 aircraft subjects are not as numerous as one would like (plus they get big and expensive once you get past the warbirds).

I've longed to do some sort of Vietnam/Huey/troop deployment diorama, but where to start ? For the figures, 1/35 is obvious, but that limits the available options for a D-model slick. You either have to detail the old 1/32 Revell version, take the more recent but not great Panda version, or somehow obtain then kitbash/convert an MRC B/C model.

Go with a 1/72 or 1/48th scale bird, and now you have to find some decent figures.

In the end the project stalls. If I get the urge to do a diorama, its always easier to walk into the hobby shop, walk down the Armour/Figure aisle and within a few minutes I have a subject, an idea, some complementary figures, some accessories, and perhaps a pre-cast building or two, and I'm ready to go.

So, having run through some of the reasons why there are less aircraft dioramas, how do we change that ?

Lets talk 'ideas'. Half the problem is coming up with the idea, the story, something beyond the "here's my subject sitting on a hardstanding/in a revetment". Lets talk about cool ideas for a diorama. We may not ever get to build it, but we might, or someone else might pick up the idea and run with it. We might have ideas that are shelved because we can't figure out how to overcome a certain aspect, but if we talk about it, maybe someone else can.

Cheers for now,

Matt

[JohnReid]

Hi Matt! I think that the best dioramas are usually up close and personal.the large Battle of Britian type scenes are best for a museum setting.Dioramas should be all about raising emotions in our viewers and telling a story about something that they can relate to.There are many great "slice of life" stories to be told and I love your unselfish idea of sharing ideas for dioramas which we can never possibly all make ourself.Here is my contribution:

Russia,the eastern front,winter,1943.Two mechanics are working on the engine of a ME 109.They have built a temporary structure that fits around the airplane from the engine to just behind the pilots seat and about halfway along the wing.The structure has windows and is placed in such a way as to be on an angle(this would be great as a shadow box type diorama)When you look into the scene you can see out the window and a blinding snowstorm with snow covering the outer portion of the wing.Inside you could have a portable pot bellied stove glowing red with heat.Add a few tools,a simple workbench etc... and you have the making of a great diorama.

Cheers! John.

You may want to take a look over on http://www.theaerodrome.com for an article I just finished on dioramas. Go to Forum,Models,How to build......

Edited August 10, 2005 by JohnReid

[stan2004]

Here's an idea:

Dioramas are better suited to animation than standalone aircraft and can dramatically improve storytelling. By animation I mean sound, lights, motion, maybe smoke and, if possible, some kind of synchronization. So in the Battle of Britain, the pilots can either statically sit around waiting for the scramble bell…OR with just the addition of sound, you can hear the songs from the phonograph, the occasional truck driving by, pilot banter, and an occasional flyby…just like the DVD. Detailing means making the phonograph spin. Super-detailing means making it spin at 33 1/3 RPM! Spitfire props spinning at idle would be a nice touch and add another background sound.

The topic starter asked elsewhere about aircraft flyby sounds for his Jenny diorama - why not use stereo from an MP3 player so that the sounds go from speaker to speaker to convey the illusion of motion.

We are familiar with lighting to illuminate cockpits to show detail but for storytelling, how about an in-flight Dambuster Lancaster diorama with 2 spotlights aimed at the water base? IMO any loss of scale is vastly offset by the storytelling value of this novel altimeter. Sounds of engine drone or Guy Gibson giving orders would be an enhancement – spinning props of course.

The Wikipedia definition of diorama states the purpose of a diorama is education and entertainment. Let’s take that at face value. An animated on-the-ground P-38 can more realistically tell the story of counter-rotating prop startup than an in flight model – something the casual viewer would probably never notice from the static blades. Why did some WWII era planes sit with props spinning at idle whereas you can just start a modern prop and go? Why did the Skyraider have the so-called 16-blade startup? Why did 4-engine planes start in a certain sequence and not even have counter-rotating propellers? These are educational stories that can be shown with animation.

The way I see it, aircraft accessories are just another opportunity. OK, maybe the new Tamiya 1/48 Citroen is only a drop in the bucket, but dioramas enable vehicle animation and there are a few tarmac compatible vehicles. I think of those $20 Christmas dioramas with the skaters gliding across the ice - done with magnets. Why not a Jeep that drives up to the Memphis Belle like in the movie? Throw in some sound and dialog and all kinds of stories can be told.

IMO animation is simply another option to OOB modeling like aftermarket PE, decals, vacuform, etc.. Depending on skill, the components can be home-made or purchased. The bright spot is technology. Forget the clunky endless-loop cassette player which has been a standard technique for diorama sounds. I got my MP3 player for $10 (after rebate) and it’s the size of a pack of gum and stores about an hour of hi-fi stereo sounds. You create the sound files on a PC and transfer to the player via the USB port. Miniature motors for props even for 1/72 and LEDs for lighting have become very inexpensive as compared to just a few years ago. There are occasional how-to threads on the major forums on motorization and lighting.

I like the notion that it’s all about ideas. After all, isn’t this is the same craft that discovered a new use for floor wax?

Stan

[Matt]

Hi Matt! I think that the best dioramas are usually up close and personal.the large Battle of Britian type scenes are best for a museum setting.Dioramas should be all about raising emotions in our viewers and telling a story about something that they can relate to.There are many great "slice of life" stories to be told and I love your unselfish idea of sharing ideas for dioramas which we can never possibly all make ourself.

John, I completely agree, the BoB dio was just to illustrate the problems of scale in a flight environment. I like the smaller is better approach as well, if for no other reason than I stand a chance of actually finishing one. Another illustration of this is one of my favourite kits, the Tamiya Stug III G. A nice kit, but the gem are the included figures. One holds a small dog, the other is offering it some food. All you have to do is put this on a base with some groundwork and you are done. How many aircraft kits even include pilot figures these days ?

Perhaps we should start a "Dio Dreams" thread that we can post to whenever we come up with a new idea.

Cheers for now.

Matt

[The_Animal]

Here's an idea:

Dioramas are better suited to animation than standalone aircraft and can dramatically improve storytelling. By animation I mean sound, lights, motion, maybe smoke and, if possible, some kind of synchronization. So in the Battle of Britain, the pilots can either statically sit around waiting for the scramble bell…OR with just the addition of sound, you can hear the songs from the phonograph, the occasional truck driving by, pilot banter, and an occasional flyby…just like the DVD. Detailing means making the phonograph spin. Super-detailing means making it spin at 33 1/3 RPM! Spitfire props spinning at idle would be a nice touch and add another background sound.

The topic starter asked elsewhere about aircraft flyby sounds for his Jenny diorama - why not use stereo from an MP3 player so that the sounds go from speaker to speaker to convey the illusion of motion.

We are familiar with lighting to illuminate cockpits to show detail but for storytelling, how about an in-flight Dambuster Lancaster diorama with 2 spotlights aimed at the water base? IMO any loss of scale is vastly offset by the storytelling value of this novel altimeter. Sounds of engine drone or Guy Gibson giving orders would be an enhancement – spinning props of course.

The Wikipedia definition of diorama states the purpose of a diorama is education and entertainment. Let’s take that at face value. An animated on-the-ground P-38 can more realistically tell the story of counter-rotating prop startup than an in flight model – something the casual viewer would probably never notice from the static blades. Why did some WWII era planes sit with props spinning at idle whereas you can just start a modern prop and go? Why did the Skyraider have the so-called 16-blade startup? Why did 4-engine planes start in a certain sequence and not even have counter-rotating propellers? These are educational stories that can be shown with animation.

The way I see it, aircraft accessories are just another opportunity. OK, maybe the new Tamiya 1/48 Citroen is only a drop in the bucket, but dioramas enable vehicle animation and there are a few tarmac compatible vehicles. I think of those $20 Christmas dioramas with the skaters gliding across the ice - done with magnets. Why not a Jeep that drives up to the Memphis Belle like in the movie? Throw in some sound and dialog and all kinds of stories can be told.

IMO animation is simply another option to OOB modeling like aftermarket PE, decals, vacuform, etc.. Depending on skill, the components can be home-made or purchased. The bright spot is technology. Forget the clunky endless-loop cassette player which has been a standard technique for diorama sounds. I got my MP3 player for $10 (after rebate) and it’s the size of a pack of gum and stores about an hour of hi-fi stereo sounds. You create the sound files on a PC and transfer to the player via the USB port. Miniature motors for props even for 1/72 and LEDs for lighting have become very inexpensive as compared to just a few years ago. There are occasional how-to threads on the major forums on motorization and lighting.

I like the notion that it’s all about ideas. After all, isn’t this is the same craft that discovered a new use for floor wax?

Stan

Oh man, I think ScalePhantomPhixer has got superdetailing competition...

Great idea, stan. I'd like to try that, but with my mediocre electrical wiring skills, I'd probably burn my house down.