Compressor/Regulator Problem

[jnick]

Hmmm.

I fired up the compressor today, planning to paint some turbines, but I ran into a problem.

I turned on the compressor, but when I opened the release on the regulator the hand would jerk once VERY fast, and thats it. It would then STAY at 0psi. When I sprayed the airbrush the air was VERY faint. Thoughm when I detached the regulator, and used ALL of the fittings I bought from Lowes F/F elbow and M?M, it fires at full force.

The only think I could think of is I just bought NORMAL fittings, not compression fittings. I'm thinking maybe the M/M fitting needs to be a compression fitting because both the airhose and the regulator "attaches" to it, and they have the weird connection. I don't know how to explain it but the little holes inside the fittings that move around. In the picture, I circled those things in red.

I took a picture to show what I mean.

Blah to many problems! LOL. The fitting I bought, as you can see, is a "normal" 1/4 inch M/M fitting. Or, I think they're called a "Hex nipple".

Gracias!

John

[Aggie96]

jnick,

You will want to seal the fittings with teflon tape to keep your joints from leaking air.

You will want to use Teflon Tape. You wrap the tape around the threads and then firmly screw the peices together...

You can get the tape at plumbing supply or home improvement stores like Lowes or Home Depot...

[jnick]

Did that . . .:(

Though do you see in that bottom picture how the fitting kind of comes to a point at the end? It narrows down. Mine doesn't do that. Can that me the main problem?

Andd the fittings were teflon sealed.

Thanks.

John

[jnick]

Here's what I mean.

Left Side:

[jnick]

Right side:

Mine doesn't "cave in". Could this be the problem?

[Aggie96]

I pulled that pic off the net.

Your fittings look just like mine. Straight.

The problem must be elsewhere....

hmmm... :(

[MickeyThickey]

Take apart the fittings. Add them back on, one at a time, and see when the air stops flowing. (or you could put it all back together and remove each connection, one at a time, starting from the end, and see when it starts flowing). That will help you figure out where the problem lies.

If the metal "bearing" in the regulator can swivel/turn, it's possible it got twisted 90` and cut off the air flow. If you detatch the air hose and the air comes out, that's probably what the problem is. If the air hose is off and the air still doesn't flow, then it's probably something to do with the regulator. If THAT'S the case, maybe the regulator WAS mounted properly before. :( The shape of the fittings shouldn't really be a huge issue - as long as you can tighten them suitably, it really doesn't matter whether they're flush at the end, tapered out or tapered in - they're just a bunch of interconnecting tubes.

[Av8fan]

I had a problem something like this when I got my new airbrush 2 years ago.

What I found out to be the problem was the fitting on the left with the interior saucer/oval section was leaking air. The air was actually shooting back out of the fitting( the hole that goes around the hose stem. )

I also had the same type of "normal" fitting purchased at a hardware store. I *think* the normal lowes fitting may have been too long.

I ended up having to go to a Parker Hannifin store where they SNIPPED the hose end and put on a hose end that would work with the setup that I have.

I brought pressure regulator and hose to the store and the fellows there spent about 20 minutes trying different combinations.

[Paul T]

John,

I think I see what the problem may be.From what I can see from the fittings that came with the hose & regulator ,it seems to be a two part fitting. You are correct in saying that it seems to be a type of compression fitting, in that the double ended " male " fitting must bottom out and push the two part fitting tightly together,making the seal. If the male connector is not long enough to make contact with the 2 part female ,the air will by-pass the fitting. You could try another fitting, or try rubber O-rings to fit inside the female fitting.Just be careful not to overtighten the parts,as this may damage the threads and perhaps cause you to use various curse words.In that case ,you best let me take care of the foul language and as we discussed before...beer drinking.. :(

Paul T....hope things work out for you....don`t worry....we are all pulling for you buddy!!

[jnick]

Thanks for the help guys.

Mickey - I disassembled/reassembled it . . . still no luck.

To me, It seems like the fittings touch the ends, though I'm not 100% positive.

http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/foru...-1075834722.jpg

If you look at that picture, do you see where the male/male fitting is? Where the airhose is connected to the regulator? Do you see the piece where the m/m fitting fits into the regulators female fitting. Well, under that, at the bottom of that femal fitting, is where I feel air coming out. Though I only feel it when I "open", or turn the nozzle to let air out, I'm guessing that's supposed to happen.

When I turn the vavle to, I think let air out, If I turn it fast, the hand on the regulator jumps really quick, then it goes down to zero.

Right now, I have no clue whats wrong :(.

It also happens once the reglators attached. If the regualtor is not connected, but the other fittings are, it will spray at full force.

Any ideas from what I just said?

Thanks!

John

[Edit] Av8fan - Thanks for bringing that up. I have another hose in the house. Ill see what happens with that one.

[MickeyThickey]

First of all, I'm assuming everything is tightened properly (not just hand tightened, but proplerly tightened with a wrench)

Going from the set up seen in this image....

Does it work as in that picture? No.

Does it work when you remove (just) the airbrush hose?

Does it work if you then remove the m/m coupler?

Does it work if you then remove the regulator? Yes.

If it doesn't work when you remove (just) the airbrush hose, is the bearing in the fitting on the regulator pointing the right way? You should be able to look down the m/m coupler to see if it is (if it's not, loosen the coupler a bit, move the bearing into position with a paintbrush handle or screwdriver and re-tighten, making sure it stays where you want it).

If it doesn't work when you remove the m/m coupler, then the problem is probably in the regulator. Your best bet then would be to take it back to where you bought it and ask for their assistance - maybe it's defective, or was damaged when you were using it backwards. (and, being able to actually see the parts in question, maybe they'll be able to help you more easily, so it probably wouldn't hurt to bring the compressor, etc. with you). I suppose there could be an issue with the air-in side of the regulator, though.

Other questions to consider in order to troubleshoot the problem: Is the female "nut" portion of the regulator part of the regulator body (ie, it's solid) or is it separate (ie, it moves/turns)? If it moves, is there much play up and down (what would be along the airstream), or does it just turn (around the airstream)? Is the m/m coupler touching the bearing when you tighten it down (again, look inside)? When the m/m coupler is attached, does the female connector on the regulator move? As much as it did without the coupler attached? (assuming it moves at all). When the airbrush hose is attached and no air is coming out... is there ANY air escaping the system? If so, where? If you wiggle the attachments, does any more or less air come out? If the regulator is removed from the system completely and turned "on", can you blow through it at all?

[MikeV]

That regulator must be a piece of junk with all of the problems you have had John.

If I were you I would go back to Lowe's and buy this:

Regulator

Then take that regulator in the picture back to where you got it. :(

Mike

[Paul T]

John,

I was looking at the Lowes page Mike sent you. I myself have # 221026 Camp.Haus.Iron force regulator @ 19.94. you can`t go wrong with it. As MikeV said ,perhaps bring the F%$^&@# thing back (you see now whats happened,you got me cursing...) and see what the what is what with that crazy thing.Of course try fixing it yourself if you can,but don`t do anything drastic,as you may void any warranty that it came with.

Again as Mike (MickFick)also pointed out ,try to see what`s going on ,and start in a logical progression ie: compressor - moisture trap,check for air ,moisture trap -reg. check , so on and so forth.At the same time checking all fittings for air leaks (soap &water on fittings will determine this) In doing so ,you should get an idea of where the trouble starts and explore from there.Just start from the compressor and work your way to the airbrush hose.

Good luck John....we`ll figure it out yet ,unless one of us has a stroke :(

Paul T

[S Fritz]

I have a silentaire compressor that just lost air pressure but it wasn't the regulator it was the Value Plate and gaskets. The connectors shouldn't have anything to do with the air flow heck I use 3/8 pipe fittings on mine. It could be that your Reguator has gone bad or as was stated earlier something else is on the Fritz. Ah one other thing have you drained your air tank lately??? gl

:(

[jnick]

It's late up here (Just got back from NYC). I'll try all of these suggestion tomorrow.

Thank you for all of the help.

rival - On a fast note. Compressor works with full strength when no regulator is attached. Drained the tank? I don't know what that is. I just got it for christmas and have used it twice . . .

An update will follow through tomorrow.

MikeV/Paul - I saw that regulator there too and almost bought it! I'll try the suggestions MickeyF stated, and if that doesn't help, move over $12.95 Regulator!

Thanks

John

[Av8fan]

Someone better replace that pictures in Aggies post. Not the original picture I remember. How would that happen?

[MikeV]

Yeah Aggie,

What's up with that disgusting photo?

Mike

[Steve Filak]

I don't know how it happened either, but it's gone now. I'm sure that's not Aggie's fault, and it's not the original pic that he posted. In fact, the picture had a filename of teflontape.jpg. Either it was some kind of weird fluke, or someone is being disgusting. In either case, I removed it from the post.

[MikeV]

Thank You Steve.

Mike

[Guest Subhuman]

Thank god that disgusting image is gone.Good job Steve!

On topic,I have the same SilentAire Scorpion I compressor and was comtemplating adding a regulator to it also.Problem with this compressor is that it has that auto-shut off thingy attached to the moisture trap.

I wonder if this is what is causing problems?

I'd prefer to remove that auto-shut off feature and simply install a regulator/trap/guage like Badger offers here Ait Filter,Regulator,Guage by Badger

I looked in the electrical junction box on the compressor to see how the wiring was routed and I'm a bit confused as to how to go about disabling the auto-shut off.

Is this even a good idea?Should I not disable this feature?Will it harm the compressor if it's constantly running?

I'd really like to get rid of this feature as it doesn't allow consistant continous airflow.It's rather annoying because when the compressor runs low it switches on and then the output air flow increases again.So it's kinda like an accordion effect.

Arrgggghhhh ... wish I hadn't taken my coworkers advice on airbrush & comressor.He obviously led way down the wrong path on both counts IMHO.

With the little bit of knowledge I've gained since joining this site (ARC),kudos to Steve and gang), I have a much better understanding of airbrushing etc.

Had I known what I do now before purchasing that compressor and Badger 350 external,siphon,single action I would not have opted for those at all.

Instead I would have started with a double action,gravity,internal brush i.e. Omni 4000 and a compressor that has a storage tank and inline regulator,moisture trap with guage.

To tell the truth,I'm kinda ****** because of him becausehe proclaimed to have been airbrushing for years and went on about his fancy,costly Paasche airbrush.

The only consolensce I have,is that he ordered the same airbrush & compressor just hours before I followed suit.

I haven't had a chance to talk to him about his choices since,because he was assigned to a clinic over the weekend after we ordered.So he's on days and I'm on nights and not even coinciding days even.Big hospital too!

Plus he's active duty and is not always there to begin with,as he has other extra-curricular duties(military BS) to deal with.

OK,enough ranting ... I feel better now ............... as long as I don't think about the $$$ I wasted!!

Let me know what you guys think about disabling and removing the auto shut off feature and the current moisture trap in lieu of an all-in-one regulator,moisture trap with gauge on this compressor.Thanks

PS: Thanks again for the most valuable knowledge base created here Steve and everyone else and all your advice and efforts in keeping this site the "Goldpot at the End of the Rainbow" for modelers. ;) :)

[Steve Filak]

Subhuman-

I'm certainly not an expert on electronics, but I think that you might be inviting a whole host of problems by trying to disable that auto shut-off. Seems as though it's there for a reason, and if you do disable it, it might cause the compressor to start overheating and not work properly.

I wish we could have gotten to you before you made your purchase. Although I used a SpeedySprayer compressor for years, I'm certainly not an advocate of diaphragm compressors. My advice would be to see if you can find someone who is interested in it, sell it, and get yourself a good tank compressor. I bought one about six years ago, and haven't looked back since. About the only disadvantage to this type of compressor is the noise - it makes a hell of a racket when you fill the tank, but once it's full, you can shut the whole thing off, and literally airbrush for hours on a tank of air. Mine has an 8 gallon tank, so I only need to start it up once or twice every few days. Best of all, I got it for $130.00 at Sam's Club - really not a bad price considering its versatility.

I also don't run a moisture trap on my compressor. I've never had any problem with moisture in the lines because I bleed the tank once a week. This seems to take care of any condensation that may accumulate in the tank. I made a home-made multi-tap connector for my compressor with two 1/4" quick-disconnects at the end, which allows me to keep my Aztek and my 155 Anthem hooked up all the time. I can also disconnect the whole thing to run larger air tools and spray guns, so it really is a worthwhile investment for the home as well as the hobby.

Sorry, I know that this isn't quite the answer you're looking for, but I'm sure that you could get a decent price for your compressor on eBay if you ever decided to switch over. I think that, in the long run, you'd be much happier with a tank compressor.

[Guest Subhuman]

Subhuman-

I'm certainly not an expert on electronics, but I think that you might be inviting a whole host of problems by trying to disable that auto shut-off. Seems as though it's there for a reason, and if you do disable it, it might cause the compressor to start overheating and not work properly.

I wish we could have gotten to you before you made your purchase. Although I used a SpeedySprayer compressor for years, I'm certainly not an advocate of diaphragm compressors. My advice would be to see if you can find someone who is interested in it, sell it, and get yourself a good tank compressor. I bought one about six years ago, and haven't looked back since. About the only disadvantage to this type of compressor is the noise - it makes a hell of a racket when you fill the tank, but once it's full, you can shut the whole thing off, and literally airbrush for hours on a tank of air. Mine has an 8 gallon tank, so I only need to start it up once or twice every few days. Best of all, I got it for $130.00 at Sam's Club - really not a bad price considering its versatility.

I also don't run a moisture trap on my compressor. I've never had any problem with moisture in the lines because I bleed the tank once a week. This seems to take care of any condensation that may accumulate in the tank. I made a home-made multi-tap connector for my compressor with two 1/4" quick-disconnects at the end, which allows me to keep my Aztek and my 155 Anthem hooked up all the time. I can also disconnect the whole thing to run larger air tools and spray guns, so it really is a worthwhile investment for the home as well as the hobby.

Sorry, I know that this isn't quite the answer you're looking for, but I'm sure that you could get a decent price for your compressor on eBay if you ever decided to switch over. I think that, in the long run, you'd be much happier with a tank compressor.

Thanks Steve,I was afraid the answer might be complications arising from modifying the compressor.

I agree too.

I think I'll try selling it and go for one of the bigger ones with tanks.

If anybody is interested in it I'll post it on our(ARC's) classified's.

[MikeV]

First off, that Silentaire Scorpion I is NOT a diaphragm compressor as Steve assumed it was. It is a piston compressor and they even sell it now in a version with a tank attached.

My advice would be to call Silentaire's tech department at their toll-free number and talk to Ernesto about it.

He is an award winning tech from Italy and he knows compressors better than anyone I have ever talked to.

The web site with the phone number is here:

Silentaire

Call Ernesto and explain your concerns to him and he will set you straight.

Let us know what he says please.

Mike

[Steve Filak]

First off, that Silentaire Scorpion I is NOT a diaphragm compressor as Steve assumed it was.

Oops - my bad. I stand corrected on this one. However, my personal preference still goes toward tank compressors. If the SilentAire now comes with a tank, I suppose that this is the best of both worlds - constant air, and quiet operation.

My preference for the tank compressor lies in its versatility. It's nice to be able to change qucik disconnects, and be able to operate nailguns and other power tools off of the same compressor. Plus, it's nice to just fill that tank up, shut off the motor, and forget about it. Again, just my - that, and about another seventy three cents will get you a cup of coffee....

[Steve Filak]

Instead I would have started with a double action,gravity,internal brush i.e. Omni 4000 and a compressor that has a storage tank and inline regulator,moisture trap with guage.

One other thing that I forgot to mention on this. Even though I'm a die hard Aztek user, if I were to recommend an Omni airbrush, my recommendation would be for the 6000 side feed with removable cup. It's still technically a gravity feed, but you have the added benefit of being able to remove the color cup for cleaning. Plus, you can order the more inexpensive Aztek color cups to use with it, and have a bunch of additional color cups in various sizes.

HTH!