Luftwaffe's F-84F Thunderstreak natural metal finish marking

[Iceman8241]

Hello ARCers,

I am a fresh meat around here, though I am walking by pretty often. Now I have the reason to sign up here since I am coming back from the dark side of scale modeling where I spent 15 sad years. Yes, I am coming back to bench and this is my first post on ARC Forums.

My comeback kit is de Havilland Vampire T.11 @ 1/72 made by Airfix, while I am doing the research for the future project and I hope I can find some answers here. The topic is mentioned in the title - F-84F Thunderstreak flown by Luftwaffe, Jagdbombergeschwader 34, Memmingen, West Germany, 1959. Since I am the fidelity obsessed monkey, I'm looking for the details of a particular airframes, namely these two:

• F-84F-40-GE s/n 52-6546 (DD-107) StUffz. Kraus
  
• F-84F-40-GK s/n 51-9517 (DD-108) Uffz. Hofmann
  

My obsession with these two airframes becomes more clear as soon as you learn that they both scrambled from the Memmingen Air Base around 0900 on 22. October 1959 for the standard navigation practice. There was a bad weather on that day, they also experienced oxygen supply malfunction and were about to return to base. Because of some sort of confusion and interference in the navigation, they began to descent on the regular pattern, unaware of the fact that they're going straight against the Dyleň mountain in the Czechoslovakia behind the Iron Curtain. They both clipped drop tanks by the tree tops, ejected immediately and landed safely despite the fact that they used the Martin Baker MK.GT5 ejection seats out of the safety limits. Both planes crashed and pilots were captured shortly after, interrogated and deported two weeks later.

Here's my album with some debris that was found by my friend and his crew after the fall of the Soviet Union and the Iron Curtain: https://plus.google.com/photos/118219073690390169111/albums/6009273909558171985?authkey=CNqT88eTwIP2kwE and crash site today http://www.leteckabadatelna.cz/havarie-a-sestrely/detail/153/. This place is rather close to the place where I am living my whole life, hence my obsession.

Now, I've learned that both aircrafts previously served in USAF and were sold to West Germany shortly before the accident (thanks to the Million Monkey Theater's vast list of the airframes http://www.millionmonkeytheater.com/F-84F.html). I also know that both warbirds wore natural metal finish. What is still unclear to me is the presence of the JaboG 34 emblem on both sides of the front fuselage. There's a JaboG 34 memorial in the Memmingen with the salvaged F-84F on the display, code DD-113, wearing natural metal finish *AND* the JaboG 34 emblem. This airframe should be F-84F-45-RE s/n 52-6669, former DD-120 and DD-320, therefore latter marking than the DD-107 and the DD-108. It's hard to find *ANY* photo of the Luftwaffe F-84F in natural metal finish, so I am welcoming any help.

There's an article about the incident in the F-40 Flugzeuge Der Bundeswehr 1, Republic F-84F Thunderstreak by Siegfried Wache (ISBN: B000VUQPWG), 1987. There are barely some pictures. I am getting another book by Wache, Republic F-84F Thunderstreak - The Thunderstreak in Luftwaffe Service (ISBN: 3935687591), released 2008 and I hope there will be something I can use.

I will be happy if you let me know in case you'd stumble upon any clue, idea or picture on this topic.

Thank you for patiently reading and I am sorry for my english - it's not my native language.

Cheers

PS: If you'e happen to be interested in the accident, I have a 20 pages long crash report written in german language.

[Pete]

I have that Airdoc book you are about to get, and I've looked trough it. There are a few pics of bare metal JaboG 34 F-84F's in it, and none seem to have any unit insignia applied yet. So it looks like those profiles you have in that publication are correct. Just serials, no unit insignias.

(BTW, in case you didn't know it, here's how the serials worked in those days. For instance, DD-107; DD stands for JaboG-34, 1 stands for 1st Staffel in the Gruppe and 07 is the 7th plane within the staffel)

[Iceman8241]

Wow, thank you Paul. That's exactly the answer I was hoping for. Also, thank you for the serial numbers explanation.

[Rainer 2]

I checked the book "Jet Geschwader im Aufbruch - Erste Jets der Bundeswehr in Luftwaffe und Marine / Jet wings at the beginning - the first jets of the Bundeswehr in Air Force an Navy" by former German Air Force 104 pilot Klaus Kropf. There are some further pictures of natural metal GAF FBW 34 / JaboG 34 F-84F´s until the year 1960, none of these F-84 wears any wing badge / Geschwaderemblem on the fuselage. Pictures of the later camouflaged JaboG 34 F-84 show the the blue and white wing badge on both sides of fuselage in front of the DD-... designation.

The book contains a picture of the pilots Unteroffizier R. Hoffmann and Stabsunteroffizier Kraus along with their wing commander colonel Greve after their retourning from Czechoslovakia in Dezember 1959. One of the pilots, the later lieutennant colonel Rolf Hoffmann describes the whole incidence in this book.

(I´m sorry for my English too, I´m from Germany)

Rainer

Edited May 17, 2014 by Rainer 2

[Iceman8241]

Thank you very much Rainer! That's some really useful stuff right here. I am going to look up the book you mentioned. We're going to organize a SIG during the model show in the November and the topic is F-84F Thunderstreak. I am tinkering with the idea of making a lecture during the show. We will also invite modeling clubs from Germany since the venue is 5 kilometers away from the Germany.

Thank you once again. I'll let you know whether I found the book or not.

[Rainer 2]

Thank you very much Rainer! That's some really useful stuff right here. I am going to look up the book you mentioned. We're going to organize a SIG during the model show in the November and the topic is F-84F Thunderstreak. I am tinkering with the idea of making a lecture during the show. We will also invite modeling clubs from Germany since the venue is 5 kilometers away from the Germany.

Thank you once again. I'll let you know whether I found the book or not.

Hello Iceman, here you can find the book for instance:

Jet-Geschwader im Aufbruch

And, you´re meaning the anually plastic modelling contest in the city of Cheb may be? I visited this event 3 times in the past.

Best regards

Edited May 18, 2014 by Rainer 2

[Iceman8241]

And, you´re meaning the anually plastic modelling contest in the city of Cheb may be? I visited this event 3 times in the past.

Thank you for the link Rainer. I already have this book on my wishlist, now I just need an excuse for my wife :D

The contest will be held on November 1st. We have new venue, big enough to invite plenty of modeling clubs from Czech Republic, Germany and Austria. There will be also a workshop and some other stuff. I hope you will attend the contest this year, consider this as an invitation :)

[Rainer 2]

Thank you very much for the invitation, if there is some leasure time for me at the weekend of November 1st, I´m prepared to visit your contest, along with my not yet finished JP Production 1/72 F-84F.

Regards

Edited May 18, 2014 by Rainer 2

[Iceman8241]

Thank you very much for the invitation, if there is some leasure time for me at the weekend of November 1st, I´m prepared to visit your contest, along with my not yet finished JP Production 1/72 F-84F.

Regards

Oh that's cool, because there will be special category (SIG) for the F-84F. We don't have official proposition yet, so you got the information ahead of everyone else ;)

[Rob de Bie]

Thank you very much for the invitation, if there is some leasure time for me at the weekend of November 1st, I´m prepared to visit your contest, along with my not yet finished JP Production 1/72 F-84F.

I'm building the largely identical RF-84F by PJ. It's a very nice model, but it does have a shape problem in the rear fuselage. I sketched it in this photo:

Correcting the problem was not too difficult: I cut two partial slits in the fuselage, and jammed oversize plastic card in them, to create a slight curve. The top photo shows the unmodified fuselage, the bottom one modified.

It's all quite subtle, but quite noticable once you know about it.

Rob

[Iceman8241]

I'm building the largely identical RF-84F by PJ. It's a very nice model, but it does have a shape problem in the rear fuselage.

That's a really nice workaround Rob! I'm going to get Hobby Boss F-84F which is most accurate kit, at least according to ARCers, and it doesn't have such problem. I'll keep your advice in my mind since there will be some kind of buzz before the SIG and everyone will look out for the reference. Thank you :)

[Rainer 2]

Thank you very much for sharing your experience with the PJ kit Rob!!!

In my opinion the kit has got a further shape issue, in this case with the vertical stabilizer which looks to be too small in hight to me. The F-84F kit has the original vertical stabilizer as well as the later, taller one (like the one of the RF-84F). But compared to the drawings by Bob "Glidingbob" Verhegghen both of them look to small at all.

Best regards

Rainer

Edited May 19, 2014 by Rainer 2

[Pete74]

Hi,

If someone is looking for decals for German bare metal or camouflaged Streaks, in 1/72 or 1/48 , the German company HaHen has some sheets (very good quality)

http://www.hahen.de/

[Iceman8241]

Hi,

If someone is looking for decals for German bare metal or camouflaged Streaks, in 1/72 or 1/48 , the German company HaHen has some sheets (very good quality)

http://www.hahen.de/

Ha! I somewhat missed your post Pete, but these decals are *AWESOME* and exactly what I am looking for. Thank you very much for the link. I owe you for this :)